Amiga Tools 3/Amiga Tools 3.iso/grafik/raytracing/imagine/tips/arc20.txt

Text File | 1993-03-12 | 129KB | 3,141 lines

IMAGINE archive: collected off of [e-mail]

ARCHIVE XX
Feb. 6 '92 - Feb. 26 '92

If you have questions or problems with this file, email Marvin Landis
at [e-mail]

note: each message seperated by a '##'

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Subject: Re: backdrop and anim building
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 16:33:55 EST
From: [e-mail] (John J Humpal)

>
> >
> >So I guess that the renderer doesn't see the backdrop behind the
> >transparent object.-?   Makes it hard to fade objects in and out.
> >
>
>     Remember that scanline only approximates transparency, perhaps
> raytracing the scene would help.
>
    Actually, even raytracing won't help.  Transparent objects will
not show backdrop pictures or starfields created in the Action editor's
Globals channel.  Doesn't matter if you're tracing or scanlining.

-John

John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer


##

Subject: Transparency Revisited
Date: Thu,  6 Feb 92 15:17:01 PST
From: [e-mail]

  Here's a bug I found recently.  Nobody told me, and I chased my tail try-
ing to cope with it for a week.  Hope this helps someone:

1: Create a transparent object.  Position it so that it is in front of the
   sky, but also overlaps a visible object.

2: Apply a Global Brush.

3: Go into TRACE mode and render.  The area that overlaps the visible obj-
   ect will look transparent, as it should.  The area that overlaps the
   sky will look like a warped portion of your global brush, instead of
   transparent.

Moral:  You cannot use Global Brushes and Transparent objects at the same
         tim in TRACE renderings!  Wish somebody'd told me!!!!!

                                                  [e-mail]

##

Subject: Formula Race Car Object????
Date: Thu,  6 Feb 92 15:18:27 PST
From: [e-mail]

Has anyone seen a formula race car object around?  Can be Formula 1, Indy,
Formula Atlantic or Formula Ford, just about anything so long as it's
reasonably modern and open-wheel.  Thanx!

N.B. - would appreciate E-Mail with answers...

                                            [e-mail]

##

Subject: Focal Length
Date: Thu, 06 Feb 92 17:04:57 CST
From: "Jason Linhart" <[e-mail]>

The one thing that I have noticed about    raytraced images is that
all of the objects in the scenes are completely in focus.  The question
that I have is " Is there a way to create an image that has a central
character that is in focus?(or for photography people, to simulate a
focal length) This would give you a good depth of field effect that
would be more realistic.
Thanks Ahead of time.....
P.S. Steve, You can send my refund by Email, That way I'll get twice as
much ; )
Jason Linhart
[e-mail]
CompGraphTech for Heifner Communications Inc.

##

Subject: Seamless humanoids
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 92 18:47:36 PST
From: Daryl T. Bartley <[e-mail]>

Sorry if this is a repeat of a repeat (of a repeat), but my first
message apparently didn't make it to the list.

Anyway, my question was about making 'cycled' human and humanoid figures
with smooth joins at the joints. I can make the limbs as round as I want, but
they still seem to break out in the 'wrinklies' at the elbows/knees/etc.
Skinned objects are smooth, but aas far as I know un-cyclable. Morphs between
objects follow the shortest distance. I suppose I could make a lot of
interpolatory (interpolationary?) objects for the motions, and do it that way,
but that's kind of a pain. Any ideas how I can do it? (And yeah, one of the
things I had planned was a T2-like human figure)

Oh, while I'm at it, I think someone said something about this before, but I
was thinking about the smooth-detailed objects morph. Someone said this about
the skull morph I think. how about hiding a small version of the detailed
object underneath the smooth featureless version, and then make it grow out
for the animation? Would this work? Am I just reiterating common knowledge?

Thanks in advance for help/answers/etc.

Daryl Bartley
[e-mail]


##

Subject: benchmarks
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 92 06:55:32 PST
From: [e-mail]

For those of you (like me) who love benchmarks and stuff, here is an
interesting one:

A friend recently lent me his 2000HD with vanilla 68000 . For fun, I set
up a fairly conpleomplex raytrace with the Diamond, the Triceratops, and some
custom mirrors , disturbed spheres and whatnot. In laced Ham Overscan, on
full raytrace, it took 9hours and 45 minutes, for the one frame. I then
took the identical .imp directories to my 2000 with 33mhz 030 and 50mhz
882 (and 8megs 32bit RAM) and rerendered, again in Laced Ham Overscan.
25 minutes was all it took, using IMagine2.0 FP, of course. Most impressive.
I use a MegaMidget economy (no MMU). No particular plug for them, but I've
nevevr had any trouble with it, and it just screams along. ANyways, there
you go. Similar results were had on Lightwave, as well, by the way.

##

Subject: Re: Interesting rumor
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 92 15:53:28 CST
From: [e-mail] (Michael Linton)

Steve Worley once uttered the words....

>From  inqmind!sys6626!bison!ccu!Athena.MIT
>EDU!spworley
>From: [e-mail]
>To:   [e-mail]
>Date: Wed, 22 Jan 92 17:09:39 EST


 SW> In the latest Amazing Computing, there is a small
 SW> mention that Imagine
 SW> (along with some other programs) will be able to use
 SW> the DMI resolver
 SW> for its interface. The mention was only one line long,
 SW> so I have absolutely
 SW> no details, but it's an interesting fact to think
 SW> about.

 SW> The DMI Resolver board is a 1280 by 1024 8 bit display
 SW> board.... can
 SW> you see yourself modelling on a screen with over twice
 SW> the resolution
 SW> (4 times as many pixels!) as you are now? Bliss...

Actually I recieved info about the DMI Resolver a couple of days ago, and it says that the maximum resolution is 2048x2048 (interlaced), the cost is $2195, So you pay for your bliss!  And it does metion that Imagine is "Currently being ported to run on the DMI Resolver board." Along with ProPage 3.0, Calagari, Draw 4-D Pro, DynaCadd, Disk-Master, 3-D Pro, Video Titler, Presentation Master, and AniMagic...So there is quite a few programs that will directly access the DMI board.  Now all I need is the $$$$...

TTYSS



--
Reply to [e-mail]

##

Subject: Re: DCTV
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 92 6:36:17 EST
From: Adam Benjamin  Core Hardware Engineering <[e-mail]>

I have had a DCTV for about three months now and I too think it is
very well worth the price.  Sure true 24 bit would be nice, but this
IS just a hobby right? (grin)

I see alot of the replies have said they were impressed by the quick frame
rate (FR) that DCTV anims could do.  I also got Senery Animator when I
bought the DCTV and I am rather frustrated by the slow FR when trying to
create the typlical "fly down the canyon" animation.  I know the more
the screen changes from frame to frame the slower the animation, but
what else effects FR?  Does number of bit planes? (3 vs. 4) how about
Resolution?  Any tips for making faster Animations with Senery Animator?
--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
   //   [e-mail]  OR [e-mail]
 \X/  Adam Benjamin          Insert snappy humor here
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

##

Subject: Focal Length/Lasers
Date: Fri,  7 Feb 92 15:38:50 PST
From: [e-mail]

For those interested in the problem of total focus in Imagine, I saw, yester-
day a brand new device: a Laser Video Projector.  Why relavent?  Because the
picture is -> in focus at any distance, and on any inclined or curved surface

I guess Imagine is just ahead of it's time...

For those interested, the Projector is from Advanced Laser Projection in
Dallas, and goes for a cool half a million.  Rental is through Future View
in WDC.
                                               [e-mail]

##

Subject: Re: DCTV
Date: Fri,  7 Feb 92 17:33:12 PST
From: [e-mail]

>I have had a DCTV for about three months now and I too think it is
>very well worth the price.  Sure true 24 bit would be nice, but this
>IS just a hobby right? (grin)
>
>I see alot of the replies have said they were impressed by the quick frame
>rate (FR) that DCTV anims could do.  I also got Senery Animator when I
>bought the DCTV and I am rather frustrated by the slow FR when trying to
>create the typlical "fly down the canyon" animation.  I know the more
>the screen changes from frame to frame the slower the animation, but
>what else effects FR?  Does number of bit planes? (3 vs. 4) how about
>Resolution?  Any tips for making faster Animations with Senery Animator?
>--
>/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
>   //   [e-mail]  OR [e-mail]
> \X/  Adam Benjamin          Insert snappy humor here
>\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

There are at least THREE factors to consider that will each add or
take away from the speed at which a DCTV anim (in RAM) can be played:

1) 3 bitplanes is faster. 4 bitplanes is slower
2) non-interlace is faster. Interlace is slower
3) no overscan is faster. Full overscan is slower.

So your fastest DCTV anims will be 3 planes, non-lace, no overscan.

The "prettiness" factor will decrease but the eye and brain do wonders
to make up for it when watching animations. For single frame
stills, though, use 4 planes, lace, overscan for the nicest results.

Harv

##

Subject: List Wackiness
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 92 21:32:14 EST
From: [e-mail]

I think I've returned the list back to normal. Mail to EITHER

[e-mail]
[e-mail]

should be posted like normal. Sorry for those days of double messages.
Back to Imagine stuff!

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


##

Subject: Circular paths
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 92 19:07:49 EST
From: [e-mail] (Fernando da Silveira Montenegro)

Is there any way I can do truly circular paths in Imagine (I still have version
   1.1)?

Thanks!

Fernando Montenegro
EM: [e-mail]

##

Subject: Roughness
Date: Sat, 8 Feb 92 07:52:34 PST
From: [e-mail]

Hmmm. I think they fixed Roughness. I did a sphere with Roughness at 255
and did a 10 frame anim of it just sitting there, and the Roughness didn't
crawl. Redid it in 24bit and looked at it on the TOaster, and still no
crawlies. Am I missing something?

##

Subject: Re: DCTV
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 92 08:51:16 CST
From: telepro![e-mail] (James Hastings-Trew)

In a message dated Sat 08 Feb 92 11:35, Adam Benjamin  Core Hardware Engine
wrote:

 ABC> I see alot of the replies have said they were impressed by the quick
 ABC> frame
 ABC> rate (FR) that DCTV anims could do.  I also got Senery Animator when
 ABC> I
 ABC> bought the DCTV and I am rather frustrated by the slow FR when
 ABC> trying to
 ABC> create the typlical "fly down the canyon" animation.  I know the
 ABC> more
 ABC> the screen changes from frame to frame the slower the animation, but
 ABC> what else effects FR?  Does number of bit planes? (3 vs. 4) how
 ABC> about
 ABC> Resolution?  Any tips for making faster Animations with Senery
 ABC> Animator?

Yes, the number of bitplanes has a BIG effect on your frame-rate, as does
the frame-frame amount of change in your image. I would recommend that you
tell Scenery Animator to use 3 bitplanes on the DCTV conversion (the latest
version lets you do this). Also, try to set up your animation so that the
motion is as smooth as possible, and try to have the camera positioned so
that you get about half sky and half ground. This way, you are minimising
the frame-to-frame changes that will make your anim balloon up out of
proportion. You might also consider doing a "letterbox" style animation -
this will really reduce the amount of frame-change and may make a more
impressive animation anyway.

-- Via DLG Pro v0.986b

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
telepro![e-mail]
We live in an age where Alice Cooper is a golf nut, and half the Partridge
Family is in detox. We were playing the wrong albums backwards!
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

##

Subject: Accelerators
Date: Sun, 9 Feb 1992 14:39:00 -0600
From: Steven Joseph Chmura <[e-mail]>

Does anyone have any experience using say a 68030/68882 but NO 32 bit
ram???

I know I know, this is going to take a speed hit....
But I really need more speed to do any serious anims (or to even see if
trace mode works).  That VXL30+6882 is <$450.  How much speed up will
I see using the FP version of imagine2.0  without the 32bit ram????

                        Steve@7.16mhz
                        1200buad
                        Sad...

##

Subject: accelerators w/o 32-bit
Date: Sun,  9 Feb 92 19:57:21 PST
From: [e-mail]

Regarding use of accelerators without 32-bit ram:

  "Taking a speed hit" is putting it mildly.  32 bit ram is the holy grail
for speeding up the machine, though a math coprocessor will help.

  My experience was with the 68020 Midget racer with a 68881 (initially).
  I found that animations that were taking, say, 2 hours a frame to render
would take 45 minutes to render once my 020/881/no 32-bit was installed.  An
improvement, fer sure, but once I moved on to a GVP 030/882/4MB 32-bit 28MHz
card, the same frames would take 5-10 minutes (being approximate).  My skills
improved, and within a year, I had frame render times up to 45 minutes again,
and went for a PP&S 040 card with 8MB 32-bit.  Now I'm back to the 15 minute
range again.

  In short, the 030 with 32-bit, and later the 040 have made a level of work
possible that was simply unattainable on either the stock 2000, or the 020/
881 without any 32-bit ram.
  Further, the 32-bit ram speeds every operation on the machine.  It's a real
thrill to watch the lharc progress meter scream by with the 040 installed!
  My suggestion: buy a good card.  You'll only have to buy it later if you
don't buy it now.
                                               [e-mail]

##

Subject: Palette Locking
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 92 9:07:45 CST
From: camelot![e-mail]

    Imagineers,

    I created a very short, 15 frame, anim last night.  It was
    rendered in scanline mode, Hires, and I wrote the files out to the
    ILBM-12 format (did I get that right?).  The problem I ran into
    was that I saved the movie as an anim instead of the Imagine
    format so that I could play it through DPaint or some other anim
    player utility.  When I load the anim into DPaint some of the
    frames look great.  Other frames have color problems.  After some
    playing around and reloading the specific picture files
    individually, I discovered that the color palette was diifferent
    for different frames.  Imagine seems to only Lock the Color
    palette for imagine format movies, but not when it is creating
    anims.  I'm trying to understand the basics about file formats,
    anim formats, color locking, etc.  When I create an animation in
    Imagine, how do I need to create the pic files and animation in
    order to show and manipulate the anim outside of Imagine?  I just
    received DPAINT IV a little while ago.  Is there a way to run
    anims that have multiple color palettes in DPaint IV?

    There is probably a book somewhere, that I need to read, that
    explains all this.

    Thanks in advance,

    Dale



--

        ____________________________^__________________________________

        dale r. rogers               Email:  ingr!b24a!camelot!dale
        afme training                Internet:
                                     ingr!b24a!camelot![e-mail]

        INTERGRAPH CORPORATION       Phone
        HUNTSVILLE, AL 35894-0001    Direct: 205 730 8294 (Messages)
        MailStop: LR24A4             Fax: [phone]

                                    .
##

Subject: backdrops and transparent objects
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 92 10:32:30 EST
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

I just received a message from Rick Rodriguez that states "Impulse is aware
that transparent objects don't show the backdrop behind the object. Backdrops
were just thrown in to the software towards the end of 2.0's development
(mostly at my request [-Rick R.] ) and the programmer did so with the least
amount of code possible.  Future versions will correct this 'feature'."

Thanks for the info Rick.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Re: accelerators w/o 32-bit
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 92 8:22:41 MST
From: [e-mail] (Steve Koren)

David Cain writes:

> Regarding use of accelerators without 32-bit ram:
>
>   "Taking a speed hit" is putting it mildly.  32 bit ram is the holy grail
> for speeding up the machine, though a math coprocessor will help.

This is very true.  IMHO, the accelerators which will only use 16 bit
ram are a rip off.  You'll probably see some increase in speed, but to
really take advantage of the faster CPUs, you need 32 bit ram.  Its
worth it to wait and get a good 68030 or 68040 card.  (Seems like
recently, the price for a 68040 with 4 mb isn't all that much higher
than a 33 mhz 68030.  Its well worth it, especially for floating point
intensive applications such as Imagine).

   - steve

##

Subject: Pallette Locking
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 92 17:20:24 PST
From: [e-mail]

One good way to lock the pallette (since Imagine simply does not seem to do
it at all!) is to use a program like ADPro to do it for you.  You can use
BatchPro2.0 to run ADPro under ARexx control for automated operation.
Simply lock the pallette after loading the first frame.  Re-Import frames
into Imagine for animation, or use the anim creation program of yer choice!

[e-mail]

##

Subject: Imagine 2.0 versions
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 12:14:45 EST
From: [e-mail]

Many of you don't realize there have been many versions of Imagine 2.0
released... apparently Impulse cas been quietly fixing some bugs and
shipping new versions. There have been at least three versions shipped since
December:

                      File Size
Version    Date     (FP version)    Description
---------------------------------------------------------------------
2.0.0     Dec 20      575636?     Original release
2.0.1     Jan 2       575640      Fixed bad trace crash with >1 light
2.0.2     Jan 14      575700      ??  (Also adds Boing2.0 F/X)


Note that the ".0" ".1" and ".2" version numbers are MINE. I don't know what
Impulse "officially" labels them. I also don't know what Impulse's update
policy is, so you might call and ask if you want the current release.


-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------




##

Subject: AmiExpo
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 12:17:25 EST
From: [e-mail]

I will be gone from Wednesday to Monday (at the AmiExpo in Long Beach CA.)
If anyone else is going, I'll be there (in fact, Apex will have a booth!)
but I'll probably be wandering around the floor. I'm thinking of having
a 3D get-together on Saturday right after the show.. email me if you might
make it.

-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


##

Subject: Dulcimer object on hubcap
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 10:12:36 MST
From: [e-mail] (Marvin Landis)

OK, I received my Imagine 2.0 upgrade and Steve's "Understanding Imagine 2.0"
2 weeks ago.  So this past weekend I decided to try some modelling with these
new toys.  I figured it was about time to do some work with Imagine, and
maybe actually participate in this discussion group rather than just being the
keeper of the archives.  For about a year my Amiga has been mostly ignored, I
worked a little with Imagine 1.1, but only long enough to redesign a few hot
air balloon objects that I originally created with Turbo Silver.  So the
results of my weekend work are now posted on hubcap in the
pub/amiga/incoming/imagine/objects directory as dulcimer.lzh.  I will include
the dulcimer.readme file below, which describes what a dulcimer is and some
details about the object.  But here are some of my other comments about my
experiences from this weekend.

The object was pretty simple to create.  I used splines to create the outline
of the sides, top, bottom, and head of the dulcimer.  Creating the splines
was fairly simple, and provided very nice smooth paths for the outlines of
those objects.  After creating the outlines, the objects were very easy to
finish using the extrude capabilities.  The tuning pegs were very easy to
create in the Forms Editor.  I really like the power and flexibility provided
by the Forms Editor.

The original idea was to use filter mapping on the top of the dulcimer to
achieve the scroll saw cutouts for the sound holes of the dulcimer.  This
worked ok, but did not give the illusion of the hole having any depth.  So
I changed my thinking and used Convert IFF/ILBM and Slice to create a top
composed strictly of triangles.  Using this technique, I ended up with sides
on my cutouts that actually have depth.  This technique looked the best, but
I did include in the archive the top object and the brushmaps to recreate the
filter mapped technique (See more about this in the readme file below).

Most of my time was spent tweaking the parameters to achieve just the right
effect with the wood texture.  I found that with the light mahogany, 1 dark
grain running through the wood looked fine.  But with the dark mahogany I
needed to use 2 wood textures, 1 for a dark grain and one for a light grain.
I think after quite a bit of experimenting, I got some pretty good results
with the wood texture.  However your results may vary, as I mention in the
readme file below.  I have only viewed this object on my 24-bit Firecracker
board, I don't know what the wood grains look like when viewed with any of the
standard amiga display modes.

So all in all, my experiences this weekend with Imagine 2.0 were very positive.
Of course it was very valuable to have Steve's book handy as a reference, I
would have hated to take on Imagine without its assistance.  And for those of
you that are beginners with Imagine, realize that I have been creating 3D
models and animations for several years with other 3D packages on my Amiga (any
one else remember using the very first version of Sculpt-3D, it was buggy, SLOW
and had no animation capabilities at that time).  So I did not just pick up
Imagine for the very first time this weekend and create this object, I do have
a fair amount of modelling experience under my belt.

So I guess I've rambled enough for now.  Here is the readme file from the
archive, hope you enjoy the object.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This archive contains a 3-string Appalachian Mountain dulcimer in Imagine
object format.  For those of you unfamiliar with dulcimers, it is an easy
to play stringed instrument, traditionally held across the lap and strummed
or plucked.  Depending on the tuning and the manner which it is played, it
can sound like bagpipes, a guitar, or a harpsichord.  This object is
patterned after a dulcimer I just finished making in my workshop.  The plans
for the dulcimer were found in "The Woodworker's Journal", Vol. 15, No. 4
(Woodworking magazines are great places to find patterns for objects).


The head, fretboard, and tail are supposed to be unfinished dark mahogany.
The sides, top, and bottom are unfinished light mahogany.  The tuning pegs
are polished ebony.  The nut and bridge were made from an unknown piece of
wood found on a scrap table at my local exotic hardwood store.  The textures
used on these objects were designed for final display on a 768x482 24-bit
FireCracker.  I use a fine grain (the exponent value of the wood texture is
pretty big), so I don't know how the wood textures will look in the standard
Amiga ILBM/HAM modes (sorry, I'm spoiled and only like to use the 24-bit
board for viewing images, so I never use the standard Amiga modes anymore).
One more thing about textures and this object, I always use textures: as the
location for the Imagine file requestor to look for textures.  So just make
sure you give the CLI command similar to this before loading this object:

assign textures: hd:3d/imagine2.0/textures

where hd:3d/imagine2.0/textures is replaced with the full path to your
Imagine textures directory.


The dulcimer.iob file uses strictly triangles to achieve the flower and
hummingbird cut-outs on the top of the dulcimer. This was achieved using
the Convert IFF/ILBM and Slice features of the Imagine Detail Editor.  I
chose this technique over the use of filter maps, because I was able to
make the cut-outs have depth (its actually the illusion of having the wood
around the cut-out look like it has depth).  With filter maps, I was able to
"punch a hole" in the top surface, but that illusion of depth cannot be
accomplished with filter mapping.  However, I have included the necessary
items to reconstruct the filter-mapped top if anyone is interested.  Just
load dulcimer.iob, remove the 2 objects topright and topleft (they are
grouped together as "top"), then load top_filter.iob.  This object looks for
brushmaps:flower.brush and brushmaps:hummingbird.brush, so you should do an
assign similar to the one above except for brushmaps:

assign brushmaps: hd:3d/Imagine2.0/brushmaps

The filter map version would be a good one to use if the object is never
going to be very close to the camera.  But for close-ups, I much prefer the
looks of the sliced top.  I have not done anything to compare the rendering
speed or memory usage of these 2 tops, if anyone actually does some tests
I would be interested in the results.


Oh, and by the way, you ARE missing something from this object.  I
intentionally left out the strings of the dulcimer (I guess my first comments
about this object should have read 3 peg dulcimer rather than 3 string :-).
The file size was pretty big already, and as a former high school and college
professor, it was always popular to say:

"And the rest of this problem is left as an exercise for the reader."

It's really pretty easy to create the strings using a polygon outline and the
ability to extrude along a path.  Just create a path that loops around the
tailpin, runs along the fretboard, and wraps around one of the pegs.  Extrude
the polygon outline along the path and you've got a dulcimer string.

There are no restrictions on the use of this object.  It is truly public
domain, so use it anyway you like. I would prefer that all the files
found in this archive be distributed together (including this readme file),
so feel free to distribute this archive anywhere.

Marvin Landis
[e-mail]


##

Subject: Public Domain Textures?
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 12:42:40 CST
From: [e-mail] (Steve Davis)

I recently purchased an EPSON 300C scanner for my college Amiga (the one I
use all the time...), and posted a message to the Imagine and LightWave
mailing lists about ideas for good scans.

Several people took the time to E-mail me about certain photograph books
that are now considered public domain, and would make good objects for
scanning.  I am interested in:
   1.  Natural Forms
          Clouds, Landscapes, Plants, Animal Skins, Women :-), Organic Blob-
          Shaped things, wood grains, etc.
   2.  Images that would be suitable for texture mapping on Imagine or
       Lightwave 3-D objects.
          These can be any of the above, plus stones, bricks, etc. etc. etc.

If you have titles and publishers for some of these photo books, I can
inter-library loan them and have them scanned RSN.  Someone may want to
set up some space on an FTP site (I might get about 10-14 Mb locally, though
that isn't much unless I JPEG compress everything...).

Which reminds me... what image format should I use?  IFF24 (large?), JPEG
(small but needs conversion), Amiga NATIVE (Few colors...), Something ELSE?
And what about image size?  Should I use 4x3, Amiga's rectangle pixels,
square images?  What about resolution?  x <? 736x482 <? x ?

Just so I don't get a rash of E-mail messages asking these questions:
   1.  The scanner is an Epson 300C, plus the Art Department driver.
   2.  It scans in 600dpi, and in color, gray scale, or B&W.
   3.  I am using a 14Mb Amiga 3000.
   4.  I have not had time to use it, so I don't know how well it works, :(
       though everyone I have talked to says it's excellent.  :-/

I can also do scans for people privately.  E-Mail me for details.

AD(Thanks!)VANCE

Stratocaster


##

Subject: AmiExpo Long Beach - WARNING
Date:    Wed, 12 Feb 92 13:57 PST
From: Ivan I                               <[e-mail]>

If anyone is heading to AmiExpo in Long Beach this weekend from elsewhere in
the country, you should be aware that we are currently undergoing the most
severe rainstorms in Los Angeles in at least the six years I have been here.
Major sections of the San Fernando valley -- north maybe 30 miles of Long
Beach, more or less -- have been flooded, highways have been closed due to
mudslides, flashflood warnings are in effect in different areas around the LA
basin, and traffic, more than usual, is a mess.  I don't want to unduly alarm
anyone, this isn't armageddon & mostly things are normal but damn wet, but if
you're flying in and expecting a sunny California clime, you'll be disappointed
BRING AN UMBRELLA!  Current forescasts show the storms going on until at least
Sunday, although that doesn't mean much -- none of the stations here were
accurately forecasting the severity of the storm.  BRING AN OVERCOAT!  Try to
avoid driving as much as possible.  While nothing specific about Long Beach has
been mentioned in the news, traffic in and out of that area is crappy at best.

Sorry I couldn't be bringing a ray of sunshine into your lives, but I hope this
helps someone who would otherwise be caught unaware.

On the plus side, I understand that a vendor there connected to Hash Enterprise
will be selling Animation: Journeyman for $300 as opposed to the standard $500
pricetag.

Best of luck!

Ivan Ivanick  esrlpdi@uclamvs

##

Subject: More Frame Rate (FR) questions
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 11:11:57 EST
From: Adam Benjamin  Core Hardware Engineering <[e-mail]>

Thanks for all the information reguarding FR and DCTV.  One more question
I have is if the CPU has anyhting to do with FR?
I suspect a 68040 A3000 plays anims at the same rate as a stock 500, since
the custom chips are doing most of the work.  Is this correct?
--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
   //   [e-mail]  OR [e-mail]
 \X/  Adam Benjamin          Insert snappy humor here
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

##

Subject: Imagine upgrade deadline
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 20:05:55 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Chihtsung Jeffrey Lin)

      I think somebody asked this question before, but nobody replied. So
Here it is again. When is the deadline for that $100 upgrade for Imagine 2.0?
I just don't have the money right now.

      Another question. Once I tried generating in 24bit just for the heck of
it, and it actually took less time than generating HAM! Does everybody know
this already? Why does it do that?

                                            Jeff   :-)

##

Subject: Re: Imagine upgrade deadline
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 21:01:25 -0800
From: [e-mail]

The reason 24bit rendering takes less time is because Imagine always renders
in 24bits anyway.  The added time for a HAM rendering is the conversion from
24bits down to HAM.  I think this is true of many newer programs, even Digi-
Paint (remember that?) calculates its dithering and such in 21bits then re
calculates for HAM.

Stefon

##

Subject: Imagine File Formats
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 11:00:04 EST
From: [e-mail] (Fernando da Silveira Montenegro)

Hi everyone!

I'm interested in playing around with Imagine objects in a SUN-workstation envir
   onment. Where can I find the file formats for the objects, stage, etc... ?

Thanks for any tips!

Fernando


*-------------------------------------------------------------*
|    Fernando da Silveira Montenegro           |              |
|    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~           |        ///   |
|    E-mail: [e-mail]             |       ///    |
|                                              |   \\\///     |
|    Instituto de Informatica                  |    \XX/      |
|    Universidade Federal do Rio Grande do Sul |  A M I G A   |
|    Porto Alegre, RS                          |   u s e r    |
|    Brazil                                    |              |
*-------------------------------------------------------------*

##

Subject: Re: More FR (Frame Rate)
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 92 21:04:04 -0800
From: [e-mail]

The CPU _definitely_ has a lot to do with the frame rate.  Here's a few
reasons off the top of my head why this is so:

  1) Anim files are compressed and each frame is uncompressed just before
     it is played.  The CPU does the decompression.
  2) Anims are loaded into Fast Ram (or "Other Mem" in 2.0).  The custom
     chips cannot get at this memory, so the CPU copies the recently
     decompressed data into Chip Ram ("Graphics mem" in 2.0) to be
     displayed.
  3) The custom chips do some work, and when they do, they steal clock
     cycles from the CPU if they need them.  On a 500, cycles are normally
     taken alternately (i.e.: CPU 1 cycle; custom chips 1 cycle).  Most
     of the time we can't tell.  But if an anim is being uncompressed as
     it is being displayed, the custom chips need cycles.  So on a 500 the
     CPU would have to miss some of its time and could not decompress
     frames as fast.  A 25MHz 3000 (with '030 or '040, doesn't much matter)
     allocates cycles like this: CPU 3 cycles, custom chips 1 cycle.  Thus
     the CPU never loses as much of its time as it would on a 500.
  4) 32-bit RAM is about 4-5 times faster than 16-bit RAM (see recent msgs
     on accelerators w/o 32-bit RAM).  A 500 doesn't get 32-bit RAM without
     an accelerator.  And since (1) and (2) depend on the CPU accessing RAM,
     the 32-bit RAM will definitely help.
  5) On an accelerated machine, the ROM tends to be 32-bits wide.  Therefore
     all system functions are performed mega-fast.  You might have expected
     window moving to be unaffected by acceleration as well.  But the
     Blitter chip only does a small part of a window move; the CPU has to do
     a lot of memory management.  Windows, menus, screens, etc. are all
     faster when a machine is accelerated, and moreso when Kickstart is put
     into 32-bit wide memory.  Likewise, displaying an anim uses lots of
     system functions, so all that will benefit from acceleration.

Whew...  I'm sure there are more reasons why acceleration affects anim FRs,
but the answer is the same: there ain't no way a 500 will play an anim as
fast as a 3000.

I hope this helps.

Oh, I almost forgot.  With DCTV, using 3 vs. 4 bitplanes even helps on a
3000.  With 4 bitplanes, the custom chips can manage to steal enough cycles
from the CPU to make a difference.  But I'll bet a 4-bitplane, overscan,
interlaced anim on a 500 would go like this:

Frame

Frame

Frame

etc. :-)

Stefon
[e-mail]

##

Subject: Re: Dulcimer object on hubcap
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 92 12:29:26 MET
From: Marco Pugliese <[e-mail]>

You wrote :

>[.......]
>
> I used splines to create the outline
> of the sides, top, bottom, and head of the dulcimer.
>
>[.......]

Well how did you do that ?
I mean, I tried many times to extrude a point along a path, but it seamed to me
impossible.

                                                Ciao.


--
*******************************************************************************
* <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< TEAMWORK >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *
* There are four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody and Nobody. There  *
* was an important job to be done and Everybody was asked to do it. Everybody *
* was sure Somebody would do it. Anybody could have done it,but Nobody did it.*
* Somebody got angry about that, because it was Everybody's job. Everybody    *
* thought Anybody could do it but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do  *
* it. It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody *
* could have done.                                                            *
*******************************************************************************
===============================================================================
  Marco Pugliese   *| Dipartimento di Scienze |* [e-mail]
  via Roncaglia 13 *|    dell'Informazione    |* [e-mail]
  20146 MILANO     *|        ---------        |* [e-mail]
  ITALY            *|  Universita' di MILANO  |* [e-mail]
===============================================================================

##

Subject: Again with World size.....
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 92 14:24:51 MET
From: Marco Pugliese <[e-mail]>

Sorry every one for talking about this old subject again, but I'm really getting crazy!
I was trying to play whith world size just to test the possibility of reducing rendering time using the (0,0,0) size bar in action editor.
The scene was just a sphere, a light and....nothing else.
Well, the problem are the rendering times; look this table:

RENDERING MODE          WORLD SIZE              RENDERING TIME

Scanline                                        2.07 secs.
Trace                   default (untouched)     2.23 secs.
Trace                   0,0,0                   3.09 secs.
Trace                   8000,8000,8000 (max.)   2.21 secs.


That's why I'm really confused! You all said that increasing world size will dramatically increase rendering time........!
Have I did any error or what ?

                                        Ciao.


--
*******************************************************************************
* <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< TEAMWORK >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *
* There are four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody and Nobody. There  *
* was an important job to be done and Everybody was asked to do it. Everybody *
* was sure Somebody would do it. Anybody could have done it,but Nobody did it.*
* Somebody got angry about that, because it was Everybody's job. Everybody    *
* thought Anybody could do it but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do  *
* it. It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody *
* could have done.                                                            *
*******************************************************************************
===============================================================================
  Marco Pugliese   *| Dipartimento di Scienze |* [e-mail]
  via Roncaglia 13 *|    dell'Informazione    |* [e-mail]
  20146 MILANO     *|        ---------        |* [e-mail]
  ITALY            *|  Universita' di MILANO  |* [e-mail]
===============================================================================

##

Subject: Old (1.1) imagine & 2.04
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 92 7:37:03 MST
From: [e-mail] (Steve Koren)

Has anyone had problems with the old (v1.1) Imagine running under
2.04?

I haven't upgraded to 2.0 yet (mostly as I have to scrape together
the $$ for it), so I'm still on 1.1.  Everything was basically OK
when I was running under 1.3.  I recently upgraded to 2.04, and now,
every time I invoke Imagine, it crashes.  Has anyone else seen
this behavior?  If so, do you know what to do about it?  I'd rather
wait a bit before upgrading to Imagine 2.0.  (Gads, I still have to
upgrade my VistaPro to 2.0, and Scenery Animator 2.0 is coming out
soon also - 3d graphics isn't a cheap hobby!)

   - steve

##

Subject: Fuzzy things in ADPro
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1992 12:16 EST
From: GREG GRANVILLE <[e-mail]>

This is my first post to this list, so forgive me if these techniques
are common knowledge, but I've been having a bit of fun lately by
compositing multiple imagine images in ADPro.
I been able to get a psuedo-depth of field effect by making the camera
track the object that I wish to be at my "focal-plane". Place the
camera on a closed, circular path whose diameter is only a few percent
of the distance from the camera to the focal-plane object. (experiment
with the diameter of this path --- a larger diameter gives a narrower
depth of field effect, but the effect starts to get less real also)
Make the path perpendicular to the camera to object axis, and create
at least a dozen frames in the anim.
Then composite the frames in ADPro with each new frame contributing
a percentage based upon 1 / (divided by) the total number of frames
thus far combined (50%, 33%, 25%, 20% , etc).
It helps to have a patterened ground, and several other objects closer
and further from the camera.
If you extent this technique to light sources (putting them on circular
paths) you can get some very nice soft edged shadow effects as well.
While these ideas both require a lot of rendering time (probably a
dozen or more rendered frames for each final frame), I've found an
easy way to make soft edged spotlamps that render in a single frame.
(much better for animations) Just make a big white disc in Dpaint
(but use a 16-gray palette) and save it as a brush. Blend the edges
so that the disc is quite fuzzy and indistinct. (this could be done
a number of ways... pixmate, adpro, etc, etc. I tried Dpaints "blend"
mode first, but it didn't work very well) Simple apply the fuzzy white
disc to a flat plane as a filter map. If you place it beneath a cone
or cylinder lamp, and get it aligned properly, you have a nice soft-
edged spotlamp. (Of course, it only works in trace mode)
I hope that someone out there who hasn't already tried something like
this finds these ideas useful... I've certainly had fun with them.

... Greg Granville

##

Subject: Re: Old (1.1) imagine & 2.04
Date:    Thu, 13 Feb 92 11:25 EST
From: <[e-mail]>

I've used both 1.1 & 2.0 under 2.04 on my 3000 without problems.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  //  /"| |\/| | /"" |"\  Support your Amiga programmers.
\X/  /""| |  | | \_T |""\ Buy the software that you use.
Jason Koszarsky
[e-mail]        THE AMIGA GROUP (TAG)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

##

Subject: Re:  Old (1.1) imagine & 2.04
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 92 02:14:12 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Chihtsung Jeffrey Lin)

    I've been running Imagine 1.1 under WB2.04 for awhile now on my A3000.
Never had a crash though. I know this is no help to you but I thought should
let you know.

                                            Jeff :-)


##

Subject: Re: Dulcimer object on hubcap
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 92 08:52:20 MST
From: [e-mail] (Marvin Landis)

> You wrote :

>>[.......]
>>
>> I used splines to create the outline
>> of the sides, top, bottom, and head of the dulcimer.
>>
>>[.......]

> Well how did you do that ?
> I mean, I tried many times to extrude a point along a path, but it seamed to
> me impossible.

First thing I should emphasize is that I am using Imagine 2.0.  If I remember
correctly, Imagine 1.1 did not allow extrusion along a spline path.  However
it was very easy with 2.0.  I realize the following explanation is more than
you asked about, since you obviously know how to create a spline path.  But I
thought I would go ahead and post the whole procedure I used for creating the
outline for the sides of the dulcimer.

1)  First we need a spline path to work with.  From the Functions menu, choose
    ADD OPEN PATH, then pick it (F1).

2)  Now we need to add some shape to the path.  From the Mode menu, choose
    EDIT PATH.

3)  First we need to add another control point to the spline.  Select both
    endpoints and then choose FRACTURE from the Functions menu.  This should
    create another control point right in the middle of the spline.

4)  Now shape the spline.  Select the middle control point and move it 20 units
    in the X direction.  Now our spline has the right shape.  Of course if the
    shape is more complex like the head of the dulcimer, we just keep repeating
    steps 3 and 4 until our spline is the correct shape.

5)  Once you are happy with the shape of the spline path, choose PICK OBJECTS
    from the Mode menu.  This concludes everything we need to do to with the
    spline path.  If you like you can verify its name by looking at its
    attributes, for this example we will assume it has the default name PATH.

6)  Now we need to add a second object that will become the outline used for
    the sides, top and bottom of the dulcimer.  From the Functions menu choose
    ADD AXIS, then select the new axis (F1).

7)  Now add just 1 point to this axis.  This is the point that will be used to
    follow the contour of the spline path.  Choose ADD POINTS from the Mode
    menu, add a point at (0,0,0) (it doesn't matter too much where the point is
    located).  Now choose PICK OBJECTS, and the single point object should
    still be chosen.

8)  Here's the step where we create the outline.  With the single point object
    still selected, choose MOLD from the Object menu.  Now click on REPLICATE.
    (The first time I tried this I clicked EXTRUDE, and this did not give me
    the right results).  Make sure the ALONG PATH is selected and the right
    pathname is supplied (in our case PATH).  Then change the value of Copies
    to some value like 20.  Click on PERFORM.

9)  When you finish the previous step, it probably looks as if you didn't
    accomplish anything.  All you can see is the axis that already existed
    for the single point object.  However choose PICK POINTS from the Mode menu
    and you should find that you now have 20 points in the object, and they
    follow the contour of the spline path.

Of course with this method, you are required to add the edges between the
points manually.  I experimented with several other options and could not
figure out a way for Imagine to add those edges for me automatically (anybody
else got any ideas?).  However adding edges manually is pretty easy, so once
the edges were added, I had an outline that I could use for the sides, top and
bottom of the dulcimer.

I hope this helps someone.  Of course I am still relatively new to Imagine's
Detail Editor, so if anyone has some improvements to the procedure above I
would be glad to hear them.  I really like to use splines, and think they
could be implemented better in Imagine than they are.  But they are very
useful for modelling, and something I wouldn't want to do without.

Marvin Landis
[e-mail]

##

Subject: Re: Dulcimer object on hubcap
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 92 10:28:05 -0800
From: [e-mail]

Here's an idea for "auto edging" your spline extrusion:

Instead of adding just a point to the axis, add a Line which is perpendicular
(relatively speaking) to the path along which it's to be extruded.

Now, when you do the extrude, you'll get a "ribbon" or something like it which
follows your path.

To get back to a single curved profile, pick the object, go to "Edit Points"d
use the Drag Box to select the bottom set of points.  Delete them and yer done!


This idea may or may not represent less work, depending on the object.  But I
personally hate to manually edge and face objects !-(


Stefon
[e-mail]

##

Subject: Archive 19 now available on hubcap
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 92 14:24:27 MST
From: [e-mail] (Marvin Landis)

Archive number 18 is now available on hubcap.clemson.edu (130.127.8.1)
in the pub/amiga/incoming/imagine/text directory.  It contains articles
posted from Jan. 21 '92 - Feb. 6 '92.  As always if you have any problems
with the archives, let me know.

Marvin Landis
[e-mail]



##

Subject: Re:  Old (1.1) imagine & 2.04
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 92 02:14:12 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Chihtsung Jeffrey Lin)

I run an Amiga Lab at Arizona State University, and I have 10 A3000's running
WB 2.04 and have had no problems.  I am personally running Imagine 2.0 on my
home system with 2.04 and also have had no problems!  From my experence 2.04 is
very solid, hat's off to the beta testers for it. They really pounded it down
to some pretty efficent code.  If you need an example of how code should not
be written, take a look at apple's system 7.0 for the mac. I have to deal with
mac lc's all day running system 7, man is it slow! I had both 6.07 and system 7
running next to each other and 6.07 looked like it was twice as fast as 7! Oh
well give me an Amiga any day, it is by far the best platform out there.
Imagine is a great example of how Amiga software can outpreform the competion
for a quarter of the cost!!

Enough of that now for a question for thought:
   Has anyone out there tried rendering a scene where the camera is
looking through several pieces of glass, I tried several index of Refr. value's
from 1.0 to 1.6. When the pieces of glass are wine glasses, you can't see
through all the glasses!  I put a light directly behind all the glasses and
couldn't see it though the glasses.  I turned up the ambient light and added
several other light sources, but to no avail!  I was trying to duplicate what
I saw in a photography book,  it had six wine glasses lined up in a row.  The
camera is looking down the row through the top part of the glasses.  Here is a
crude visual:
               Side                            Top
    |-    UUUUUU
          |||||| <Glasses                |-   oooooo
    ^camera

If any one has any ideas or has attempted a simular scene please send me email!
By the way I was using an A3000 and Imagine 1.1, haven't tried it on Imagine
2.0 yet!  Thanx in advance to anyone that can help!
-Phil

/-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|->Phil Roach       EMAIL: AUPMR@ASUACAD    Arizona State University          |
|^ P.O. Box 27982                           Tempe, Arizona  85287-0111        |
|^ Tempe, AZ 85285-7982                                                       |
|^ ---------------------|"I think there is a world market for five computers!"|
|^<-'IMAGINE' Fanatic!!<|          Thomas J. Watson, Founder of IBM           |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------/

##

Subject: Re: Wineglasses
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 92 10:04:52 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

>
>Enough of that now for a question for thought:
>   Has anyone out there tried rendering a scene where the camera is
>looking through several pieces of glass, I tried several index of Refr. value's
>from 1.0 to 1.6. When the pieces of glass are wine glasses, you can't see
>through all the glasses!  I put a light directly behind all the glasses and
>couldn't see it though the glasses.  I turned up the ambient light and added
>several other light sources, but to no avail!  I was trying to duplicate what
>I saw in a photography book,  it had six wine glasses lined up in a row.  The
>camera is looking down the row through the top part of the glasses.  Here is a
>crude visual:
>               Side                            Top
>    |-    UUUUUU
>          |||||| <Glasses                |-   oooooo
>    ^camera
>
>If any one has any ideas or has attempted a simular scene please send me email!
>By the way I was using an A3000 and Imagine 1.1, haven't tried it on Imagine
>2.0 yet!  Thanx in advance to anyone that can help!
>-Phil
>
>/-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>|->Phil Roach       EMAIL: AUPMR@ASUACAD    Arizona State University          |


    Okay,

    1] Perhaps the light is not "bouncing" enough to actually
refract properly.  The RSDP or resolve depth sets how many times
reflective objects can reflect each other, this may also affect
filtering, I'm not sure.

    2] Make sure you are tracing and are not in Scanline.

    3] You shouldn't see the "light" in any of the wine glasses
since "lights" aren't physical objects in Imagine.  To have an object
actually refract you need to use a real 3-D object, or brush map on one
or global brushmap. You will see highlights if the specularity is up.

    That's all I can think of.  Hope it helps.

               Michael Comet
               [e-mail]


##

Subject: Re: The book, the damn book!
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 92 11:57:46 -0500
From: Udo K Schuermann <[e-mail]>

Steve's Book
~~~~~~~~~~~~
The address:  Apex Software Publishing
              405 El Camino Real #121
              Menlo Park, CA 94025

Price      :  $24  <-- This is the price for IMAGINE MAILING LIST members ONLY.
                       I don't recall what the price is for non-members.
              It does include shipping.

    Steve will surly correct me if I should be wrong.


The book does not have an ISBN number.  I looked and couldn't find one (but
I enjoyed page ii anyway).

 ._.  Udo Schuermann      "Everybody knows that the boat is leaking.
 ( )  [e-mail]   Everybody knows that the captain lied."
 Seeking virtual memory                                       - L.C.

##

Subject: Vertex Modeler?
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 92 1:11:37 CST
From: Jeff Niebergall <[e-mail]>

I was the paging thru the latest (Mar92) AmigaWorld and in the
DevWare PD Library Ad in the back there is a listing for a
program with the following description.

Disk V05: Modelling-Vertex allows you to create 3-D objects
without using the abstract X,Y and Z views. Saves in
Sculpt-3d/4d, TurboSilver, Imagine, LightWave, GEO and Wavefront
formats.

I assume since this is a PD library listing this program should
be around and available via ftp. Has any one seen or tried this
program? Has anyone seen it on an ftp site and if so which one?


Thanks, Jeff Niebergall

PS: Let me also add to the positive comments on "Understanding
Imagine2.0" by Steve Worley. It is well worth the time effort
and money to aquire a copy of this well done book. Keep up the
good work Steve.

--

##

Subject: About vertex..
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 92 12:52:35 -0800
From: Michael Gibson <[e-mail]>

About the vertex modeler.. it is a shareware modeler ($30) that can load and
save in various formats (including imagine, sculpt, etc) , so it might be
useful for object transfer, and it has some pretty nifty modeling featrues.
I talk to the author and put it up for ftp a few weeks ago for him.. You
can find the demo version up at ab20 in /incoming/amiga/ Vertex.lzh and
Vertex.reamde, or at hubcap.clemson.edu in ../uploads  .  Check it out.
The demo version does everything except save. It will save, but only in
its own format.

                    Michael

##

Subject: Fog trick
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 92 20:28:10 PST
From: [e-mail]

A simple fog trick: Using global fog, set Top to 0, bottom to, say, -5000
and then pick everything (cam, lights, objects) and rotate it 90 deg on the
X axis: presto, a Wall O Fog, easily controlled.

This comes to you courtesy Charles Blaquire (I forget his compuserve #).
In other words, I didn't think it up.

Steve's book is great, by the way. Buy it.

##

Subject: Another Fog trick
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 92 11:27:44 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

    Another 2.0 fog trick, or use really is to make stars or suns.
Simply add a sphere, make it a yellow-white, set it's fog length so it
is a thick fog, but somewhat less dense at the outer area, and you have
an instantaneous sun!  Look really good, much better than if you had
just added a sphere and made it bright.

               Michael Comet
               [e-mail]


##

Subject: Imagine 2.0 documentation (fwd)
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 92 8:56:51 CST
From: camelot![e-mail]

    There seems to be a lot of interest in Steve's book and where to
    find it.  I dug into some old email and found the original message
    from Steve introducing his book.  I hope this satisfies those
    requests.

    Regards,

    Dale

    By the way... while I'm here I have a question.  I have read a
    number of messages about using fonts in Imagine.  Last night I
    tried to load a font into Imagine using the Functions/Add/font
    objects command.   Whoa!! What a horrible rendition of a Times
    Font.  OK.  Here's the question.  What's the best way to get "a
    decent Times font (or any font for that matter) into Imagine?
    Should I:

        Type in a font in DPaint and then use Pixel 3D to convert it?

        Buy a titler program?

        Try to find existing fonts that have already been made?  Where
        do I find them?

    I would appreciate any help so I can finish this project.





Forwarded message:
 From uucp Thu Jan  9 14:43 CST 1992
 From: ingr![e-mail]
 Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
 To: [e-mail]
 Subject: Imagine 2.0 documentation
 Date: Thu, 09 Jan 92 14:55:56 EST


 Now that Imagine 2.0 has been released, a lot of people are
 discovering its new tools and abilities. The reference manual in
 particular IS improved, but some recent posts to the list show that it
 still isn't really adequate.


  On Thu, 9 Jan 92 07:25:49 CST, [e-mail] said:

 Tom>   When I heard that Imagine 2.0 was going to have a big manual
 Tom> book, I had visions of a book like the Amiga Workbench 2.0 manual
 Tom> only a little smaller.  But instead I got a book written in the
 Tom> same loose style as all the rest of the documents that come from
 Tom> Imagine with page after page of chatter mixed in with various
 Tom> pieces of information that you might be lookin for.
 Tom>   Good luck! There are hardly no headers in the book! For example,
 Tom> in the section describing the Detail Editor, there are 43 pages of
 Tom> text with a few diagrams scattered around and only 2 headers in all
 Tom> these pages. The Detail editor can do a Lot of things! The only
 Tom> hope that you have to see how something works is to hope it's in
 Tom> the index or table of contents. And from the mail that I see on
 Tom> here about

 [e-mail] said:

 Mike> The manual does seem to be somewhat confusing, and the index is
 Mike> definitely poor.  It seems as though the manual tries to take up more
 Mike> room in order to make things clearer, but to me it is as if they are
 Mike> just not getting straight to the point.

 Stratocaster said:

 Strat> I just got Imagine 2.0 in the mail.  I am very depressed about the
 Strat> quality of the manual, for one thing... the Index is only two sheets
 Strat> of paper, difficult to read, and DIFFICULT TO FIND.  The "Pick Sharp"
 Strat> pull-down is not mentioned anywhere in the manual, for example.
 Strat> Imagine 2.0, there are a lot of omissions in the index.

 ---------------

 The following is a commercial message: However, I feel it is quite
 appropriate for this mailing list, especially considering what it is
 discussing.

 ---

 You might have noticed that I have been very quiet on this mailing
 list in the past few months. Also, several people have noticed that I
 haven't written any tutorials for nearly six months! This is because I
 have been very busy, indeed.

 I am proud to announce the completion of my latest project, a book
 describing Imagine (Imagine 2.0 in particular) in complete detail.
 The book, _Understanding Imagine 2.0_, began shipping this morning.

 The book is a complete guide to the Imagine software. It has two
 sections, the main section being a true reference manual for each and
 every editor and menu command. The commands are discussed in context
 as opposed to a simple list of commands or a vague tutorial bouncing
 from topic to topic.

 The second part of the book consists of appendices of extra
 information that can help you USE the menu commands described in the
 first part. There is a long essay on object creation techniques. One
 appendix lists the most common problems users have with Imagine and
 the solutions to those problems. Another appendix has descriptions of
 third party programs and hardware like ADPro and Pixel 3D which might
 be useful companions to Imagine. Yet another appendix lists a variety
 of tricks to use in your own renderings, ranging from motion blurring
 to making widescreen "scope" animations. Another example illustrates
 warp drive "glow" and using Fog to make clouds, and visible light
 beams.

 Perhaps the most useful aspect of the book is its index (over 10
 pages!) and system of cross references. The index is EXTREMELY
 detailed, which is really a necessity for a manual documenting a
 complex program like Imagine.  Frequent cross references in the text
 itself direct you to related commands or information, so you might
 know to look at the "world size" when you are selecting your rendering
 method to be Trace.

 This book is as complete as I could make it, and really no aspect of
 using Imagine has been omitted. The book itself is hefty: it is 230
 full sized 8.5 by 11 pages and contains much more text than the
 Imagine manual itself. It is comb bound, so you can open the book and
 lay it flat.  The book is not a tutorial (too much information in it
 already!), but it still comes with a companion disk, mostly of toys
 like some new brushmaps and objects to play with (including a
 photorealistic "Luxo" desk lamp of mine not in the Public Domain.)

 You may have read some of the tutorials I have written about Imagine
 before.  This commercial venture is much more polished and contains
 over a megabyte of text, (as compared to the less than 100K of
 tutorial text I have released in the past!)  and contains figures,
 cross references, and a complete index. It even has a short preface by
 Amiga artist Louis Markoya.

 The book retails for $30, and is shipping as of this morning. (I had to
 wait for the final Imagine 2.0 to be released to make sure that all of
 the functions and options were described.) It is not at dealers yet,
 but you can order the book directly.

 I am VERY proud of the text, and am certain it will address many if
 not all of the demands for better Imagine documentation. Buying a book
 sight unseen is a tough choice, since you don't have any guarantee
 other than faith that the book will be worth the cost you pay for it.
 I'm confident enough in the text that if you purchase the book
 directly, you are welcome to return the book for a full refund if you
 aren't satisfied with it for any reason. I honestly don't expect any
 returns.

 The book retails for $30, but for members of this mailing list, (my
 loyal friends!) you can purchase it for $24, including the shipping
 costs.  (CA residents unfortunately have to add 8.25% sales tax, and
 international orders are $5 for shipping.)

 You can order the manual by sending a check or money order to:

                Apex Software Publishing
              405 El Camino Real Suite 121
              Menlo Park CA 94025.

 The book is shipping, so turnaround time for mailing is only a couple
 of days.

 I apologize for the commercial nature of this message, but again, I
 feel it is quite appropriate. I am really proud of the book and hope
 that it satisfies the urgent need for decent Imagine documentation.
 Now that this project is wrapped up, I'll finally have time to become
 more active on the list again!

 -Steve

 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Steve Worley                                       [e-mail]
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------




        ____________________________^__________________________________

        dale r. rogers               Email:  ingr!b24a!camelot!dale
                                     Internet:
                                     ingr!b24a!camelot![e-mail]

                                    .





##

Subject: Imagine and Ham-E+
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 92 11:00:57 -0500
From: ""Ryan C. White"" <[e-mail]>

  Has anyone found a way to make Imagine and Ham-E more compatable?  It is
a pain to convert each file after you render it to be able to view it in 24
bit.  Do you know if Impulse is planning on writing a library for Ham-E like
they did for DCTV?  Or is they a way to configure Imagine to show Ham-E files
(640 x 400, 4 bitplane)?

  [e-mail]

 ... Has anyone created really good water? I've created ok looking water, but
I'm looking for some really good attributes/parameters.

##

Subject: extruding along splines
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 92 21:43:37 EST
From: [e-mail]

Whenever I want to make a connected series of points along a spline path,
I don't use the ribbon technique. It works, but if you are spinning or
the path is complex, you can't easily delete the extra points.

I just add an axis, and add TWO points connected by an edge. Then I
translate one point exactly on top of the other (with Translate or
Lock or Snap To Grid).  I extrude this new object along the path, and
use "Merge" to get rid of the extra points. No matter how complex and
twisty the path is, this will work without any manual editing. A final
step is to pick all of the faces in the object (there are infinitly
narrow ones connecting the points) and delete them.

Keep on rendering...


-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


PS: Quick-n-dirty Expo report: Vista Pro 2.0 is WAY COOL. Animation Journeyman
was also being demoed by a 4th party vendor... it's hard to see it in action
due to the strange marketing by Hash. Nothing big graphics-wise other than
that (and a big draw at my booth! :-) I sold a buncha books. )

##

Subject: Caligari 2
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 92 19:37:37 -0800
From: [e-mail] (Chihtsung Jeffrey Lin)

    I went to the AmiExpo on the Queen Mary over the weekend. Met Steve
Worley at the Apex booth ( So young and yet so talented ! ). Any ways, I saw
Caligari 2 being demostrated. It seems to good to be true. It's methods of
modeling is much more powerful and intuitive than those used by Imagine.
Caligari models in a perspective view instead of a tri view, everything
happens in real time unlike the perspective window in Imagine's object
editor. The rendrings in Caligari 2 looks quite impressive too. The price of
Caligari is close to that of Imagine 2.0. I haven't upgrade to Imagine 2.0
yet. After seeing Caligari, it made me wondered how many upgrades it would
take for Imagine's modeler to even come close to Calgari's modeler. If it's
take five upgrades, I would be better of buying Caligari instead of putting
my money into Imagine. This is not to start a flame war, it's just a
question: What does Imagine have that Caligari doesn't have?



                                             Jeff :-)

##

Subject: Re: Caligari 2
Date:    Mon, 17 Feb 92 20:40 PST
From: Ivan I                               <[e-mail]>

Uh oh, looks like the beginnings of a mass defection; I myself went for
Animation:Journeyman because I found myself frustrated by Imagine's character
animation capabilities.  While Journeyman, even in the short time that I've had
to look it over, is far more suited to realistic & easily created motions,
Imagine is way ahead in terms of 1)speed (no FPU support for Journeyman yet)
2) quality of final pictures (only 1 level of aliasing is available in AJ)
3) believe it or don't, the manual.  Yes folks, if you want to see a manual
that REALLY bites the big one & hard, check it out.

So while I figure to adopt AJ for learning to do character animation work, I
will be sticking with Imagine for stills & playing with textures/effects/the
other cool stuff that it does do so well.  While I realize that all of this
may be off the topic of the list (?) I do think that what with the current slew
of programs out, this might be a judicious time to take stock of where Imagine
sits in relation to the others, both so that we can discern the strengths and
not merely dwell on its shortcomings, and also perhaps to present a united
front to Impulse as to what we desire for the next upgrade roll around.  After
my time at Ami Expo I am quite worried that a lot of Amiga 3D program develop-
ment is merely a proving grond for the more profitable IBM market (glad to
provide specific worrisome examples upon request) and perhaps a subsidiary
market afterwards.  It seems that judicious & knowledgable pressure applied to
produce the best possible program could be in all of our best interests. I
don't know how much we influenced the 2.0 upgrade through Steve's request for
requests, but we DO seem to have an in to Impulse through him, if only to
communicate our desires & general feelings.

I don't in any way mean to be using you, Steve (I too met him & found him to be
very exhuberant both in terms of his own & Impulse products, very amiable) but
you are, as I'm sure you realize, in a unique position as both in touch with
Impulse & a wide spread of Imagine users on the list.  Your dedication to the
product can, I think, do us all good.

Remember, both pro and con points in terms of Imagine vs. other products are
needed -- positive reinforcement, you know.

Ivan
-------------------------TEXT-OF-FORWARDED-MAIL--------------------------------
    I went to the AmiExpo on the Queen Mary over the weekend. Met Steve
Worley at the Apex booth ( So young and yet so talented ! ). Any ways, I saw
Caligari 2 being demostrated. It seems to good to be true. It's methods of
modeling is much more powerful and intuitive than those used by Imagine.
Caligari models in a perspective view instead of a tri view, everything
happens in real time unlike the perspective window in Imagine's object
editor. The rendrings in Caligari 2 looks quite impressive too. The price of
Caligari is close to that of Imagine 2.0. I haven't upgrade to Imagine 2.0
yet. After seeing Caligari, it made me wondered how many upgrades it would
take for Imagine's modeler to even come close to Calgari's modeler. If it's
take five upgrades, I would be better of buying Caligari instead of putting
my money into Imagine. This is not to start a flame war, it's just a
question: What does Imagine have that Caligari doesn't have?



                                             Jeff :-)

##

Subject: caligari2,toaster2,imagine2
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 92 21:33:03 PST
From: [e-mail] (Kevin Kodama)

jeff writes:
>I saw Caligari 2 being demonstrated. It seems too good to be true...
there is a demo version of Caligari 2 floating around-you should definitely
give it a try before plunkng down money :) i have played around with it,
i think Steven Menzies (steve?) has experience with Caligari, too, he did
a nice write up of it on usenet.(sorry if it wasnot you..:_)

Imagine 2.0 is a niiiice upgrade, something which may not be immediately
noticable upon first using, since many of the changes are subtle. However,
i was forced to go back to Imagine 1.1 for a while, and was suddenly converted
to a 2.0 believer !

btw, just received toaster 2.0 today ! (on a holiday !)
the upgrade comes on 14 disks, needs 40 megs of free hd space to install, and
eventually resides on a very extravegant(sp) 30+ megs of disk space !!!
i have temp. installed it on a syquest (rather slow, but..)
so far, have only played with lightwave 2, but it is way cool :)
brushed metal surfaces ! marble brushmap included ! lots of objects (mostly the
same as IMagine's...)

kevin
[e-mail]

##

Subject: Re: Caligari 2
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 92 21:48:58 PST
From: [e-mail]

>question: What does Imagine have that Caligari doesn't have?
>
>
>
>                                             Jeff :-)
Well, here's two things for starters:
The Caligari you saw, which is the $399.00 "Caligari2"
a) does not show you light placement. All lights positions are entered
 numerically and there is no graphical "light" widget you can grab and
 move around
b) does not render to IFF24 files. Your choices for rendering saves
are limited to (1) HAM, (2) DCTV, (3) HAM-E. That's it.

I have made my voice known to Roman Ormandy, Pres. of Octree, and
head Caligari honcho, that I think these are two important features
which should have been in this $400 software and he agrees and says
there will be an upgrade "about 4 months from now".

Further, Caligari does not load Imagine-format objects, although it
does load VideoScape .geo and Sculpt .scene format objects. And I know
of nothing that can convert Caligar-format saved objects to some
other format.. although Caligari CAN save .geo format so that problem
isn't very obnoxious.

There are some other problems but I think I'll save them for the
magazine review I'm writing about Caligari2. :) Can't give
away everything y'know.

Regards, Harv

##

Subject: Imagine v1.1 edge level?
Date: 18 Feb 92 08:27:00 CST
From: BRIAN ROZEMA <[e-mail]>

Howdy,
    Because of Steve's new manual, I have started to play with
Imagine (again).  At this point I'm not sure whether to invest the extra
$100.00 on version 2.0.

Question:

    In Steve's book, he spends some time talking about the edge level
found in the new 2.0 preference editor.  Where are all these neat functions
located in version 1.1?  Action editor?

Brian Rozema


##

Subject: Re: Imagine v1.1 edge level?
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 92 10:55:38 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

>
>Howdy,
>    Because of Steve's new manual, I have started to play with
>Imagine (again).  At this point I'm not sure whether to invest the extra
>$100.00 on version 2.0.
>
>Question:
>
>    In Steve's book, he spends some time talking about the edge level
>found in the new 2.0 preference editor.  Where are all these neat functions
>located in version 1.1?  Action editor?
>
>Brian Rozema
>
>
>
    Unfortunately Imagine 1.1 does not have a PREFERENCES editor,
however it does have a little function named reconfig.  Basically, you
can simply go into any word processor that handles ASCII, such as Ed,
and load a file in your imagine directory named "imagine.config" .

    This file is the actual configuration file Imagine reads.  Some
where in there should by the Edge Level 4 letter code followed by a
number and probably a remark after that.  You can change the file, and
save.

    Once changed, for Imagine to recognize the change, you can
either start it again, or use the Reconfig from the PROJECT menu to have
it re-read the config file.  This is good for setting up function keys,
so you can go back and forth between messing around in imagine, and
editing the config file.

               Michael Comet
               [e-mail]


##

Subject: Steve's Book
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 92 12:52:52 PST
From: [e-mail]

What is the ISBN number of Steve's Imagine book?  I'm trying to get
my local software store to order it (I know I can get a discount, but I
figured it'd be better for Steve if I got stores to order them)...

dave


##

Subject: Tips & Tricks
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 92 15:53:05 MET
From: Marco Pugliese <[e-mail]>

Hallo everybody out there.

I'd like to open a new series of articles on an italian paper (Amiga Magazine), talking about Imagine's "Tips & Tricks".

I'd like also let italian people who cannot access this list, know about features and hints that I'm getting from you all.

So please help writing me or to the list everything you think can be interesting or just funny about Imagine features and utilities.
Italian Imagine users will appreciate it !

                                        Thanks in advance.

                                        CIAO

--
*******************************************************************************
* <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< TEAMWORK >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *
* There are four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody and Nobody. There  *
* was an important job to be done and Everybody was asked to do it. Everybody *
* was sure Somebody would do it. Anybody could have done it,but Nobody did it.*
* Somebody got angry about that, because it was Everybody's job. Everybody    *
* thought Anybody could do it but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do  *
* it. It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody *
* could have done.                                                            *
*******************************************************************************
===============================================================================
  Marco Pugliese   *| Dipartimento di Scienze |* [e-mail]
  via Roncaglia 13 *|    dell'Informazione    |* [e-mail]
  20146 MILANO     *|        ---------        |* [e-mail]
  ITALY            *|  Universita' di MILANO  |* [e-mail]
===============================================================================

##

Subject: The book, the damn book!
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 92 07:31:47 PST
From: [e-mail]

Steve and all-
  I have been a regular reader of the list for a month or two, and I
see numerous requests for info on how to get the wonderful Worley text
on Imagine, but nary a single reply.  I've waded back through the list
on Portal back to 11/91, and no info (at least in a title line) on how
to obtain the thing!

  PLEEEEEAAASE!  For my sake, and that of all of us information-hungry
Imagine users, can you or someone make a general post letting us all know
how to obtain it?  No, PR, no hype, no shameless huckstering, just an
address, a source, an ISBN #, SOMETHING!

  I'm looking forward to buying it with great relish.  Don't ex-
actly how that will taste, but I'm willing to try it out...

[e-mail]

##

Subject: Re: Steve's book (Understanding Imagine 2.0)
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 92 17:50:05 CET
From: ajberl![e-mail] (Ottmar Roehrig)

:I just got your book the other day and I'm AMAZED!  This is a professional
:piece of work you did, worth every penny!  I like the binding (lays flat),

How can I get my hands on this book in germany???
I'd really like to buy one. Maybe I'd even order it in the USA if
it's possible to pay by mastercard...

Ottmar
--
AtelierRoehrig, Ottmar Roehrig, Hamburg, Germany
ETG021,UUCP:...!cbmvax!cbmehq!cbmger!ajberl!ottmar

"Excuse me, can you tell how to get to cyberspace?"

##

Subject: Re: Imagine v1.1 edge level?
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 02:10:58 EST
From: [e-mail] (Bob Lindabury, SysAdm)

rutgers!po.cwru.edu!mbc (Michael B. Comet) writes:

>
> >
> >Howdy,
> >    Because of Steve's new manual, I have started to play with
> >Imagine (again).  At this point I'm not sure whether to invest the extra
> >$100.00 on version 2.0.
> >
> >Question:
> >
> >    In Steve's book, he spends some time talking about the edge level
> >found in the new 2.0 preference editor.  Where are all these neat functions
> >located in version 1.1?  Action editor?
> >
> >Brian Rozema
> >
> >
> >
>     Unfortunately Imagine 1.1 does not have a PREFERENCES editor,
> however it does have a little function named reconfig.  Basically, you
> can simply go into any word processor that handles ASCII, such as Ed,
> and load a file in your imagine directory named "imagine.config" .
>
>     This file is the actual configuration file Imagine reads.  Some
> where in there should by the Edge Level 4 letter code followed by a
> number and probably a remark after that.  You can change the file, and
> save.
>
>     Once changed, for Imagine to recognize the change, you can
> either start it again, or use the Reconfig from the PROJECT menu to have
> it re-read the config file.  This is good for setting up function keys,
> so you can go back and forth between messing around in imagine, and
> editing the config file.
>
>                Michael Comet
>                [e-mail]

Also, if you are using 1.1 you can obtain (from my BBS of course via
direct dialup or via the file-server) a program called IMCONED.  It
is the Imagine Configuration Editor.  It allows you to edit your
configuration via the mouse in a graphical user interface.  Colors
are changed with sliders and are shown in a little color box and
values are changed in boxes and T/F flags are toggled by buttons.
This is a MUST have program if you are still in the 1.x versions of
Imagine.  Edge level is adjustible (of course) with this editor.

-- Bob

 The Graphics BBS  908/469-0049  "It's better than a sharp stick in the eye!"
 ============================================================================
  InterNet: [e-mail]                | Raven Enterprises
      UUCP: ...rutgers!bobsbox!graphics!bobl      | 25 Raven Avenue
    BitNet: bobl%graphics.rent.com@pucc           | Piscataway, NJ 08854
    Home #: 908/560-7353                          | 908/271-8878

##

Subject: Re: Imagine v1.1 edge level?
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 8:53:25 EST
From: [e-mail] (John J Humpal)

The edge level code in the Imagine.config file (for both 1.x and 2.0)
is EDLE.  Impulse set it to 35 originally.  Max anti-aliasing is 0, min
is 255.

Another useful number to tweak is RSDP for resolve depth.  Impulse has it
at 8 (= 8 reflections/refractions per ray).  You can set it to 1 (or 0??)
if you are not using reflection/refraction).

-John

John J. Humpal -- [e-mail] -- short .sig, std. disclaimer


##

Subject: New user questions...
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 11:38:23 EST
From: [e-mail] (George Browning)

I bought Imagine (the old version) this weekend and have started playing with
it.  I was being good and doing the tutorials, but after I build the wine
glass object I decided I wanted to see it rendered.  The explanation of
attributes is not real clear in the manual, especially how they interact
and whow to use filter.  What I would like to do is make the glass clear,
however I have been unable to do it.  What kind of settings should be used
for clear glass objects?  I am also curious as to the time/space/flexiblity
trade offs of the rendering modes (ie how is an IFF animation different from
and Imagine one).  Finally is there any way to create 16 bit hires single framesor can things only be save as HAM?

Thanks much,
George Browning

##

Subject: Re: New user questions...
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 17:28:15 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Michael B. Comet)

>
>I bought Imagine (the old version) this weekend and have started playing with
>it.  I was being good and doing the tutorials, but after I build the wine
>glass object I decided I wanted to see it rendered.  The explanation of
>attributes is not real clear in the manual, especially how they interact
>and whow to use filter.  What I would like to do is make the glass clear,
>however I have been unable to do it.  What kind of settings should be used
>for clear glass objects?  I am also curious as to the time/space/flexiblity
>trade offs of the rendering modes (ie how is an IFF animation different from
>and Imagine one).  Finally is there any way to create 16 bit hires single framesor can things only be save as HAM?
>
>Thanks much,
>George Browning
>
>

    With regards to the filter attribute this is a regular question
from new users since the manual doesn't really tell you everything you
need to know.

    To make glass the following is required:

        1] For true refraction you MUST Ray Trace a scene, not
Scanline.

        2] The attributes must be set for glass so that
SHINYNESS is= ZERO (0).  If the shininess is not zero, you won't get
glass!  (You will also probably want to bring up the specular to a full
255,255,255 for a bright white highlight.) Don't forget, if you make the
glass fully clear, (255,255,255) and set an index of refraction > 1 you
will get a glass object, but you will probably need other objects in the
scene so that you can "see" the glass.

    For the second question, you can tell Imagine what type of file
to render and in what format when you are in the large menu to create or
modify a subproject.  Each subproject can be a differnet format, so that
you could render one animation in HAM and another in HIRES.

               Michael Comet
               [e-mail]


##

Subject: Warp Engines
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 92 11:13:49 GMT-0500
From: Scott Matthew Krehbiel <[e-mail]>

Ok, I've been working on this one for quite a while, and I hope it's
not some stupid error of mine.  Anyway, I'm trying to create ( version
1.1 ) a red sphere, semi transparent, with a glowing yellow center.
( you remember the Warp Engines on the original Enterprise? )
I tried creating a hollow sphere in forms, then putting a light
source in the center, hoping that the specularity would create a hotspot
on the far inside wall.  For some reason, it wouldn't create a hotspot,
even with high specularity.  Then I tried putting a bright yellow
sphere ( primative ) inside a semi-transparent red primative sphere.
That didn't work either. ( all I got was a brown glob )

Any suggestions?  I would like to get a firm handle on 1.1  before
shelling out ANOTHER $100 for a new disk full of confusion.

Thank you Thank you.
[e-mail]

Oh, by the way, any reason that the rendering should have an entirely
different camera view of the object than that in the "camera view"
in the stage editor?
thanks

##

Subject: Objects detail editor -> cycle editor
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 92 12:21:06 +0100
From: Thomas Holmstr|m  <[e-mail]>

I have been working on a spider I want to run across
a scene. At first I tried to asseble each part (2 body pieces,
8 upper leg-pieces and 8 lower leg-pieces) in the cycle editor
but when I've created the ``skeleton'' and start to assign the
pieces they all attach much too large. I suppose the attachment
have to do with where in an object the axis is located but
in spite of much tviddeling I can't get the pieces right.

    Then I noticed I got a requester if I loaded a grouped
object from the detail editor into the cycle editor and the
object (group) haven't been in the cycle editor before.
The request asked if I wanted to convert the object to a
cycle object. YES, that's exactly what I want! I worked for
some simple object (and for some other complex too, like
the robocop from hubcap, though I ran out of mem ;-) ) BUT
it didn't work with my spider! Imagine just put up another
requester telling me that it wasn't a proper cycle object.

    Since then I've been experimenting and trying to find
out when Imagine asks me if I want the object converted and when
it just tells me down but I can't find any rules.

    The question: Have someone else been into this and
figured it out? The cycle editor hasen't been mentioned much
either in Steve's tutorials or here in the list (as long as
I've been in). BTW, I'm using 1.1 PAL-version if that matters.

M.v.h. Thomas Holmstrom.

##

Subject: re: Objects detail editor -> cycle editor
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 92 12:05:35 PST
From: "Jim Lange" <[e-mail]>

Errors-To: unix:[e-mail]

Thomas Holmstr|m   <WRPYR:[e-mail]> asks about the cycle editor:

>     The question: Have someone else been into this and
> figured it out? The cycle editor hasen't been mentioned much
> either in Steve's tutorials or here in the list (as long as
> I've been in). BTW, I'm using 1.1 PAL-version if that matters.

I have converted grouped objects to cycle objects successfully with 1.1.  The
new features addendum that came with 1.1 describes two menu options in the
detail editor called Cycle Setup and Cycle Shuffle.  These allow you to
"prepare" a group hierarchy for use in the cycle editor.

First, construct your hierarchy so that the axis of each component is located
where a connected child object would rotate around it.  For example, (using a
human analogy) the axis of an upper arm would be at the elbow, and the axis of
a forearm would be at the wrist.  The Y axis of each object must then point
towards and extend to the parent's axis--this is what Cycle Setup does for you.
If you select the group by clicking on the parent axis of the entire group (in
Group Select mode) then select Cycle Setup, all Y axes will be rotated and
stretched to be in this configuration.

In the case of your spider, if the axis of the body is in the center of the
body, and the legs actually attach along the lower sides, you will need 8 extra
dummy axes located at the connection points which are children of the body.
Otherwise, the leg will not rotate around where you have it connected, but
around the center of the body!  These "spacer" objects are needed anytime you
have objects which need to move relative to their parent without changing size.

Also, the Y axis of the top parent should point in the direction the spider
will move when attached to a path.

After using Cycle Setup, you should be able to successfully load it into the
cycle editor.  Cycle shuffle is used if you want to manipulate the hierarchy in
the detail editor to achieve one of your keyframe positions.  After
repositioning, select Cycle Shuffle, then save your group with a new name.
This object can then be loaded into an existing cycle using the Load Pose
option.  (With 1.1, it is usually easier to manipulate the object in cycle
editor after converting.)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Lange                [e-mail]
Oracle Corporation            {uunet,apple,hplabs}!oracle!jlange
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


##

Subject: Vertex Arexx question....
Date: 20 Feb 92 15:09:00 CST
From: BRIAN ROZEMA <[e-mail]>

    Is anyone using a registered version of Vertex?  I was wondering
if the arexx capabilities (advertized in the demo version) allows one to
add faces by specifying three 3D points in space.  I would like to specify
the coordinates of the 3 3D points instead of picking existing vertices.
Will Vertex allow me to do this using arexx?

            thanks in advance,
            Brian Rozema
            [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


##

Subject: Spider, cycle objects, etc..
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 92 13:59:58 -0800
From: Michael Gibson <[e-mail]>

About making a spider object in the detail editor and taking to the cycle
editor:

    This works great - there's just a few things that you have to make
sure of. When you group your objects, you want to put the object's axis at
the _end_ of the point of rotation, and then group it to the origin of
rotation. ok, what I mean is that when you take for instance a leg, the
end of the leg will have its axis at the very base of the leg, where the
leg touches the ground. It will then be grouped to the next higher up
portion of the leg, and it will rotate around it's parent's axis, not its
own. So you want to connect the lower part of the leg to the upper part of
the leg, and then connect the upper part of the leg to an empty axis at
the "shoulder" of the spider, and then group that to the axis for the main
body. Hmm. I'm not doing a very good job of explaining this.. I uploaded
a half-finished human object a while ago over at hubcap called human-object.lzh
that demonstrates this sort of stuff. Check that out. So, once you make and
assemble the object in the detail editor, just save it and load it into
the cycle editor, and it will ask if you want to convert it. Say yes, and there
you go - a cycle object. Now, you might not be able to convert an object
if you have grouped it strangely... You should try to connect the groups to
a single main object to act as a "base". Anyway, the tricky part is figuring
out where to put the axes for the pieces. If you look at that human  object,
you will notice that the axis for the shin piece is at the _foot_, not at
the knee. You then group it to the thigh piece, which has its axis at the
knee, and then group that to an empty axis at the hip that just acts as
a point of rotation. I wish I could explain it easier..

                    Michael

##

Subject: Re: Objects detail editor -> cycle editor
Date:    Thu, 20 Feb 92 18:30 EST
From: <[e-mail]>

O.K. I've had the same problems, and here's what I found out.
a.) do all your positioning and building as it were in the detail editor. the p
ositions of all the objects will be saved with the object so you can pick up an
d leave off whenever you want.
b.) place the axis of a particular object in such a way that it's z-axis will r
each out toward the parent's axis. An example of this would be an eyeball conne
cted to a socket. The eyeball's axis would not be in the middle of the eye, but
 rather on the outer surface, since the eyeball is scaled according to the leng
th of the z axis. The eyeball would then rotate around the middle, since the so
cket's axis would be connected to the eyeball's z-axis. Once you have all this
done, use CYCLE_SETUP and CYClLE-SHUFFLE to let you load the Group (which you a
lso group in the detail editor) into the cycle editor all ready to be played wi
th.

I realize that this is a little wierd, but it does work. The key is to try and
do all your building in the detail editor and to put parent's axis where you wi
ll want the child to rotate around, and move the z-axis of the child to meet th
at parent axis.

                                                                RG

##

Subject: Wavefront, Lightwav, Journeyman
Date:     Fri, 21 Feb 92 19:23:53 +0100
From: Hannes Heckner <[e-mail]>

Hi Imagine-freaks,

everybody talks about Wavefront, Lightwave etc. and I do not no anything about
them. So please could you shortly describe each of the following programs:

Wavefront - Lightwave - Journeyman

with price, qualities, maufacturer.


Thanks a lot
Hannes


P.S.: I am a happy Imagine V1.1 user (soon upgrading !!!!! :-)

##

Subject: Re: DCTV & Miscellaneous
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 92 11:45:51 GMT
From: [e-mail] (Yury German)

:If I do need an adapter, am I going to have to give up my non-flicker
:display because I have to hook up my monitor to the RGB port?
    Yes you will have to get an adapter. Unless your monitor has a
NTSC in in which case you can use it directly. The RGBadapter will be more
for Genlocking then using an RGB monitor but thats in the future.

:4)  Is the update to DCTV's paint program packaged with the product yet, or
:is it even out yet?  Is it an improvement?
    Yes the 1.1 is out. It is more friendly has an undo function as
well as a better layout. Proportinal creation, better text handling, nice
clip additions... like shadows and easier handling.

:5)  What's happened to Colorburst?  I've heard some ugly rumors about it.
:(Not about the product itself but it's distribution.)
    Well it bombed in the US and the developer decided to drop it and
go on to creating a new board. There will be little in terms of suport for
it from the developer.

##

Subject: upgrade deadline
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 92 12:28:21 MST
From: [e-mail] (Steve Koren)

Did anyone ever resolve when the upgrade deadline from 1.1 to 2.0
was?  I am also in the position of having 1.1 and wanting to upgrade
to 2.0, but not wanting to do it quite yet.  I saw some messages
about this, but never saw an actual date.

   - steve

##

Subject: Radiance and Rayshade
Date:    Fri, 21 Feb 92 17:08 EST
From: "'Bish' (Doug Bischoff) EMT-MAST" <[e-mail]>

     I realize it's a little off the topic, but all this talk about rayshade
and now radiance, I'm very interested in trying them out.  Some questions:

     1)  Where do I FTP them again?
     2)  What platforms do they run on?  (Amiga would be nice, ya know.)
     3)  What object formats do they accept?  (They aren't modellers, are they?
     4)  What are the strengths/weaknesses of each that might make them a
         good alternative to using Imagine's renderer?

     Thanks for any information.  As a hope-to-be professional in the business,
I want to get as much experience with as many different types of rendering that
I can.  Thanks again!

/---------------------------------------------------------------------\
| -Doug  Bischoff- |    *** ***    ====--\         |  "Guitars are    |
| -DEB110 @ PSUVM- |   *  ***  *     ==|<>\___     |   shaped like    |
| -The Black Ring- |    *** ***        |______\    |      Women,      |
| --- "Wheels" --- |      ***           O   O      |  But they sound  |
| Corwyn Blakwolfe |     T.R.I.     -------------  |      Better."    |
\---- [e-mail]  D.BISCHOFF on GEnie  THIRDMAN on PAN -----/

##

Subject: Haitex Xspecs
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 92 17:03:11 EST
From: [e-mail] (Alan Price)

I finally picked up a pair of Xspecs yesterday. My first impression is WOW!
What a fun gadget! Playing SpaceSpuds is a trip.

All the pictures on the included disk looked great in 3D. Imagine2.0 is
supposed to support the glasses. This is, of course, the reason I bought
them. This is, of course, where the problem begins.

I have a multisync monitor ( a DiamondScan ) that only syncs at the 30kHz
rate. The haitex software includes a display program that apparently forces
a interlace flicker to occur whether you are using a de-interlacer or not.
This was good new for me and everything worked. However, when rendering
an image in Imagine2.0 with 'stereo 3D' selected, showing the rendered image
results in the steady display of the stereo images interlaced together.
The glasses flicker but the screen does not so it doesn't work. It seems
that Imagine depends on the monitors usual 15kHz flicker to create the effect.

So figured big deal, I'll just use Haitex's viewer software called 'D3D' to
display the Imagine-rendered files. No such luck, D3D does not recoginze
the stereo files created by Imagine and just gives an 'error' message. Or
a 'malformed ILBM' message.

If this is the case, how is one supposed to display an Imagine stereo file
outside of running Imagine to do it? I can understand my problem with the
display-enhancer while trying to show stereo files within Imagine, but not
the fact that the files are not compatible with the haitex display program.

DO any Xpsecs owners out there have a solution? Also, the program 'M3D'
(Make 3D) works to interleave pre-rendered left and reight-eye views and
then display it from within it's program, it CRASHES when it tries to save
them as single stereo file. (I have an A3000/25/50) I have called Haitex
but still have not heard back from them.

ANy suggestions much appreciated!
AP


##

Subject: Re: Wavefront, Lightwav, Journeyman
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 92 17:47:34 EST
From: Mark Thompson <[e-mail]>

> everybody talks about Wavefront, Lightwave etc. and I do not no anything
> about them. So please could you shortly describe each of:
> Wavefront - Lightwave - Journeyman
> with price, qualities, maufacturer.

Wavefront: Once the industry leader in 3D animation, they have fallen behind
in capabilities, interface, and features to the likes of SoftImage and
TDI Explore. It is a workstation based package and runs primarily on SGI
machines. As such, it is VERY expensive. I don't know the exact amount,
but it is in the 10s of thousands of dollars. It is perhaps the single
most common 3D package in high-end 3D studios.

Journeyman: From Hash Enterprises is a 3D character animation package that
differentiates itself from all the rest by supporting spline surfaces
and smooth bendy/twisty type animation without morphing from object to
object (refered to as "spine" morphing). This package sells for $500.
Its downfall has been its second rate rendering capabilities and Hash's
refusal to sell it via distributors or dealers.

LightWave: the 3D package that comes free bundled with NewTek's Video
Toaster. Or as some prefer to look at it, the $2500 package that comes
with a really cool dongle. It is an outstanding package, particularly
for broadcast applications, but it is not well suited to character animation.
Its strong points are its handling of surfaces, rendering speed and quality,
intuitive interface, and video support. Personally, it is my favorite
package on the Amiga but I am looking forward to an extensive demo of the
latest version of Caligari Broadcast.
%~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~%
%      `       '        Mark Thompson                 CONCURRENT COMPUTER  %
% --==* RADIANT *==--   [e-mail]        Principal Graphics   %
%      ' Image `        ...!uunet!masscomp!mark       Hardware Architect   %
%     Productions       [phone] [phone]   & General Nuisance   %
%                                                                          %
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

##

Subject: Limitations of the Cycle Editor
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 92 17:09:34 CET
From: ajberl![e-mail] (Ottmar Roehrig)

Hello, you Imagine-gurus out there!

While doing an gnimation I ran into a problem with the cycle editor
which may be of interest to all of you. I'm looking for a solution,
but by now I almost do think, that the cycle editor is not capable of
doing the things I want it to do.

Here we go: Have you ever thought of making a pair of compasses walk?
If it was a charackter it would move in a zig-zag-path. It would move
one of its "legs" to the front, while makeing the space between the
legs bigger in the lower part. The angle of rotation (of both legs!)
is the "holder" of both legs, almost all the way up the object. But
now think of the position, where both legs are spreaded and the pair
of compasses starts moving the other leg.. At this time it also has
to rotate around the center axis of the other leg!!

By now I have not found any solution to this problem of the moving
local axes in the cycle editor. I hope you could understand which
cycle I want to define. if not, I'd be willing to make it more clear
in a 20.000-charachter-description :-)

Thanx for any help, and maybe this makes some of you gurus REALLY think :-)

Ottmar
--
AtelierRoehrig, Ottmar Roehrig, Hamburg, Germany
ETG021,UUCP:...!cbmvax!cbmehq!cbmger!ajberl!ottmar

"Excuse me, can you tell how to get to cyberspace?"

##

Subject: Re:  Objects detail editor -> cycle editor
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 92 15:07:34 EST
From: F. Felixberto <[e-mail]>

----- Begin Included Message -----

From [e-mail] Thu Feb 20 07:10:15 1992
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Objects detail editor -> cycle editor


>I have been working on a spider I want to run across
>a scene. At first I tried to asseble each part (2 body pieces,
>8 upper leg-pieces and 8 lower leg-pieces) in the cycle editor
>but when I've created the ``skeleton'' and start to assign the
>...

    The easiest way I know to do this is to group the spider parts
in the Detail Editor.  Load all the spider parts you need into the editor
and position them appropriately (the hip bone connected to the thigh bone
etc. :)).   Be sure they are not grouped together.   Now pick one of the lower
legs, press Shift-M so that you can interactively move the axis for the leg.
Move the axis to the foot end of the lower leg.  Press SPACE to make the move
permanent.  Pick the upper leg, press Shift-M and move the axis to where the
upper and lower legs meet, press SPACE.  Hold down the Shift key and pick
the lower leg.  Now group the two together (be sure that the upper leg is
the parent object).  Go to the Function menu and select Add Axis.  Position
this axis where the upper leg goes into the body.  Pick the axis, then
holding down the Shift key, pick the upper leg (this should pick the group
of upper leg and lower leg, if not make sure that you are in the pick group
mode).  Group the upper leg to the axis.

    Perform the operation described above for each of the other seven
legs.  When you are done with all eight legs, pick the body piece where the
legs attach to, then multi-pick all the legs and group them together.  How
you group the body pieces to each other is up to you.  Save the final grouped
object.

    Go to the Cycle Editor, load the spider group.  A requester should
come up asking you if you want the object converted to a cycle object.  Click
on OK and you should be all set.  Select the Pivot mode to move the legs
where you want them to.

    Hope this helps.

                        felix




##

Subject: Re:  Warp Engines
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 92 15:20:00 EST
From: F. Felixberto <[e-mail]>

>Ok, I've been working on this one for quite a while, and I hope it's
>not some stupid error of mine.  Anyway, I'm trying to create ( version
>1.1 ) a red sphere, semi transparent, with a glowing yellow center.
>( you remember the Warp Engines on the original Enterprise? )
>I tried creating a hollow sphere in forms, then putting a light
>.......Then I tried putting a bright yellow
>sphere ( primative ) inside a semi-transparent red primative sphere.
>That didn't work either. ( all I got was a brown glob )

    The problem with trasparent objects is that the color of the
background will affect the color of your objects.  You might try doing this:
Make two identical primitive spheres.  Go to the Top view, for one sphere,
delete all the points above the  object axis.  In the attributes requester, give
it a filter value of RED:255, GREEN:255, BLUE:0.  Pick the other sphere. delete
all the points below the object axis.  Give it a color value of RED:255.
You can make this object bright or not depending on what effect you're trying
to achieve.  Join this two sphere so they make up one sphere, half of which
is opaque, and half of which is semi-transparent.  They will be joined
together along the X-Z plane.  When you position this sphere, be sure that
the X-Z plane is perpendicular to the camera.

    Now make a small sphere and make it yellow and make it a light source.
Put this in the larger sphere you made above and you should have something
close to what you wanted.  For best results, render in trace mode.

    Hope this helps.

                        felix

##

Subject: Re:  Warp Engines
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 92 20:53:05 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Mr. Brad Milhorn)

Scott,
    Got the message about your problem with the warp nacelles in
Imagine 1.1.  Since we don't have a fog command and the effect you want
is a scattering of light try a multifaceted crystal between the light
source (inside the engine) and the hydrogen collectors in the front.
this should give the scattering effect your looking for.

    Also use a white light source on a semi translucent red hemisphere.
That *should* clean up the mess you had with the yellow source, and give
you the effect you described to me yesterday.

    Brad Milhorn    [e-mail]
        or    [e-mail]

##

Subject: Lightwave 2.0
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 92 20:11:56 PST
From: [e-mail]

Well, I've been playing with Lightwave 2.0 for a few days now, and I still
am baffled as to how to get the pretty pictures I know it can produce.
The renderer definetly is better than Imagine's, but the modeler still
sucks, although it does have some great new commands (bend, taper etc).
It still lacks a solid connection between the modeler and the surfaces.
Naming surfaces and then dealing with them hours, maybe days later just
doesn't cut it. Especially when you can't go into the modeler and see
what
's what. It's too bad, because it really is much faster and does create
some excellent images. Imagine still has my vote, though...

Peter Bowmar

##

Subject: Morphing Characters
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 92 12:03:29 -0500
From: ""Ryan C. White"" <[e-mail]>


I working on an animation now where the main character is one object that
moves through morphing.  This gets to be a problem in the stage editor
because if i need him to walk for 50 frames I have to the action editor
and put in every frame of the morph over and over again. Does anyone know
of a way (or is it even possible) to make some kind of cycle object out of
morphing objects.

 Chris White

##

Subject: ab20
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 92 1:44:48 PST
From: [e-mail] (Laurence Hawkins)

I have just joined the Imagine mailing list and have seen quite a few messages
refering to examples located on ab20.larc.nasa.gov, and I have wondered where
this is and how I can transfer files to/from, or if you have to have an account
there.  I have used FTP before to transfer files from/to other specific users
before, but I still know little about how FTP works.  I have a few objects that
I think people would be interested in.

I am also thinking about purchasing an 030 or 040 board for my 2000, and I was
wondering if anyone had any suggestions as to what some of the better choices
are?

        Thanks,

        Larry Hawkins
        (503)-287-9317


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


##

Subject: .LZH files
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 92 12:14:31 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Elizabeth E Sack)

Someone had posted asking what is used to uncrunch .LZH files.  The program LZ
is used to do this.  It can also uncrunch LHWarp and LHArc files.

It is located on AB20.LARC.NASA.GOV in the AMIGA/ARCHIVERS directory.

Jeff Hanna
Studio J Video Productions

[e-mail]

##

Subject: Attributes help
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 92 13:29:51 EST
From: [e-mail] (Paul Wehner)

Whenever I load a cycle object into the detail editor I go too "pick Groups"
mode and hit F7 to adjust the attributes. However when I load attributes I've
made they only apply to the parent object of the group. Does anyone have a
suggestion as to how to overcome this? I have Timm Martins "CycleMan" object
and trying to make it all chrome is very tedious using pick objects mode-all
10 fingers and upper/lower eylids etc makes for a long time. Thanks for any
help...Paul Wehner usr9110a

##

Subject: New Pics
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 92 14:30:13 PST
From: [e-mail] (Steve Worley)

I've uploaded JPEG files of four of my renderings onto the anonymous FTP site
hubcap.clemson.edu.

AmiLuxo:  A lamp pushing a ball (amiga-checkered!) on a desk
Rough Voyage: Stormy seas with a sailboat guided by a lighthouse beam
3Pointer: Basketball going into a hoop. A real view of the ball discussed
          in the appendix of my book.
767 over Boise: A nice model.

Enjoy. The files are all in JPEG format, so you'll need ADPro or the PD
code to change them to 24 bit.

-Steve

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                       [e-mail]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

BTW: My book got a 5 star review in .info, and I won first place in
the AmiExpo 3D art contest.  I'm quite happy..... :-)


##

Subject: Camera track/anim
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 92 13:33:28 EST
From: [e-mail] (Paul Wehner)

Ok, here's another problem I'm having-I've set up a twenty frame anim and
have added an axis/track in the stage editor and told the camera via the
action editor to track itselgf to this axis. When previewing the anim the
camera moves itself over the track so by the end it resides right on top
of the axis. I don't know why this happens -any help out there?
thanks. Paul Wehner/usr9110a


##

Subject: re: Attributes help
Date:    Mon, 24 Feb 92 11:57 PST
From: Ivan I                               <[e-mail]>

Assuming you mean Tim WIlson's CycleMan, he addresses this in the manual
supplied with the objects; go into attributes, select texture, then select
grid.  Set the first 2 settings (line & something I can't recall) to 1000, so
they should be too big to fit on the object anywhere I believe, and then use
the rest of the settings to put in chrome attributes.  The only problem here is
that you have to type the settings in instead of loading a predefined attribute
but that's not a big deal.  I've done this, and it works fine.

Incidentally, the Cycleman object is a really nicely defined set of walking/
running cycles with a well articulated male figure.  The motion is superb,
and the manual gives some nice insight into complex cycle editor constructions.

Ivan
-------------------------TEXT-OF-FORWARDED-MAIL--------------------------------
Whenever I load a cycle object into the detail editor I go too "pick Groups"
mode and hit F7 to adjust the attributes. However when I load attributes I've
made they only apply to the parent object of the group. Does anyone have a
suggestion as to how to overcome this? I have Timm Martins "CycleMan" object
and trying to make it all chrome is very tedious using pick objects mode-all
10 fingers and upper/lower eylids etc makes for a long time. Thanks for any
help...Paul Wehner usr9110a

##

Subject: Book Offer
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 92 08:23:18 PST
From: [e-mail] (Steve Worley)

As many of you know, there is a special offer for my book to members
of this mailing list. This is just a warning that I'm going to have to
put a time limit on this offer, due mainly to people claiming to be on
the list who aren't, or worse, people who join the list to get the
discount, then post annoying messages tobe removed after they get
their books.

Don't worry, there's plenty of time. If you want to get a book at the
$24 price, please get your order in by March 15 (three weeks from
now.) Hopefully this will weed out some of the chaff subscriptions.

The address to order _Understanding Imagine 2.0_ : (this is an FAQ by now..)

Apex Software Publishing
405 El Camino Real, Suite 121
Menlo Park CA 94025 USA

$24, plus $10 for overseas orders. $26 for CA orders (sales tax...)

Sorry for the commercial message. :-)

-Steve


##

Date: Tue, 25 Feb 92 08:28:16 PST
From: [e-mail] (Kevin W. Hobbs)

I'd like to get the pictures that Steve Worley just uploaded to
hubcap.clemson.edu.  Could someone please tell me which directory
they are in on hubcap.  I have to go through decwrl's ftpmail to get
these and it takes alot of time just to locate the directory where
files are at the I want.  Thanks a bunch!

Kevin Hobbs

##

Subject: Re: your mail
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 92 11:44:40 EDT
From: [e-mail] (Doug Dyer)

>
> I'd like to get the pictures that Steve Worley just uploaded to
> hubcap.clemson.edu.  Could someone please tell me which directory
> they are in on hubcap.  I have to go through decwrl's ftpmail to get
> these and it takes alot of time just to locate the directory where
> files are at the I want.  Thanks a bunch!
>
> Kevin Hobbs
>
I keep a file fairly updated called FILES in the
pub/amiga/incoming/imagine directory which is a recursive listing
of all imagine direcories sorted by date (recent uploads are in
front).

##

Subject: Re:  Attributes help
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 92 17:46:49 EST
From: [e-mail] (Alan Price)

You do have to set the attributes for each individual object that makes up
a group. This can be somewhat tedious for a general attribute 'overhaul',
but one method I use to help sped this up is to save the attributes of the
first object you readjusted to a seperate attributes file, then each time
you bring up the attributes requester for each additional object, just click
the 'load' button, hit return on the selected, previously saved file, and
all the attributes will be loaded in automatically. This reduces the amount
of work to hitting 'F7', clicking 'load' and hitting return, for each object
insted of setting each individual attribute over and over.
Hope this helps.

AP.


##

Subject: Re: Limitations of the Cycle Editor
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 92 14:23:26 EST
From: [e-mail] (John Rosner)

> From cbmehq!cbmger!ajberl![e-mail] Sat Feb 22 14:36:39 1992 writes:

> now think of the position, where both legs are spreaded and the pair
> of compasses starts moving the other leg.. At this time it also has
> to rotate around the center axis of the other leg!!

The cycle editor only works with relative motion within an object,
i.e., one part to another.  So the compass legs move apart because they
are parts moving within the whole.  Rotation of the whole object is not
supported, except in the action editor.  I think it should be, but then
I think Imagine should run in overscan.  You could make it rotate in
the cycle editor if it is relative to some other part of the object.
Perhaps an axis? or maybe the top handle of the compass?

Hope this helps (hope this is right)

John Rosner

##

Subject: FTP login problems on hubcap
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 92 16:12:50 CST
From: camelot![e-mail]

    Lately I seem to have some problems getting onto HUBCAP.  I
    connect OK, I login as anonymous (no problem), but it doesn't seem
    to want to accept anything I keyin for a password.

    Any suggestions?

    Thanks,

    Dale




        ____________________________^__________________________________

        dale r. rogers               Email:  ingr!b24a!camelot!dale
                                     Internet:
                                     ingr!b24a!camelot![e-mail]

                                    .





##

Subject: Color0 on object
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 92 4:57:10 PDT
From: [e-mail] (Aaron Tucker)

    Fellow Imagineers,


    I just completed an animation for a car dealer in Reno called
Champion Chevrolet Geo. It has thier logo fly in from the side, slow down,
and stop at the top 1/3 of the screen. This takes 1.5 seconds. The next
second (30 fps, BTW), has a squiggly line draw itself in the middle of
the logo (the logo actually has two parts). Anyways, the animation looks
great and the client loves it.

    Enter the problem. When I played back a HAM version of the anim to
show him a real-time version...we put it over some video. The logo looked
great. But, when the squiggly line went to draw itself, it would come up
as a black line first, then draw itself. I was using Steve Worley's idea
of flying a (255,255,255) Transparent Texture over the object, slowly
revealing itself over 30 frames. Looks great until put onto video. The
object is not Color 0. It doesn't appear until the 46th frame, where it
makes an ugly entrance.

    If anyone has a fix for this problem, other than touching up every
frame in Light24, please let me know. I suppose I could have a Plane that
was Color 0 (Genlocked) in front of it and move with the texture, but that
seems like such a kludge.

    Thank you for your time. BTW, Steve, since you live in California,
what are the going rates for 30fps 24bit animation? I have a deal with a
local vide house here where I record to MII. What is the average going rate
in CA for equivalent work? Anybody else?

Juan Trevino
[e-mail]
"Wake up. Time to die."  -Leon from BladeRunner


##

Subject: Pricing for Animations...
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1992 09:11:05 EST
From: Dwayne <[e-mail]>

> From: [e-mail] (Aaron Tucker)
> Subject: Color0 on object
> To: [e-mail]
stuff deleted
>    Thank you for your time. BTW, Steve, since you live in California,
>what are the going rates for 30fps 24bit animation? I have a deal with a
>local vide house here where I record to MII. What is the average going rate
>in CA for equivalent work? Anybody else?

That is a very good question.
I would like some help on this subject too.
Do I charge by the hour for my time?
Do I charge by the finished length of the work?
Or so combination?

>Juan Trevino
>[e-mail]
>"Wake up. Time to die."  -Leon from BladeRunner


*****DWAYNE*****
[e-mail]

##

Subject: Re:  Limitations of the Cycle Editor
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 92 14:14:23 EST
From: F. Felixberto <[e-mail]>

>...
>Here we go: Have you ever thought of making a pair of compasses walk?
>If it was a charackter it would move in a zig-zag-path. It would move
>one of its "legs" to the front, while makeing the space between the
>legs bigger in the lower part. The angle of rotation (of both legs!)
>is the "holder" of both legs, almost all the way up the object. But
>...

I am not sure if this is exactly what you are looking for but you might try
it anyway:

Go into the Detail Editor.  Make a long narrow cone for your compass leg.
Turn it upside down, and copy it (Amiga-c).  Rotate it around the world's
y-axis by 30 degrees (any value I give here is just a suggestion, use
what you want to use).  Move the axis to the point of the cone.  Press
right Amiga-c to paste a new copy of the cone, rotate it by -30 degrees around
the world's y-axis and move the axis to the point of this cone.  Add an axis
and put it where the base of the two cones meet.  We will call this axis as
the handle (for the compass that is).  Group the handle and the cones
together with the handle as the parent.  Move the group to 0,0,0.  It should
already be there but just make sure.

Note:  All rotations will be done around the WORLD AXES.

You should be able to do everything from the top view so go ahead and make it
full screen.  Rotate the compass group around the z-axis by -45 degrees.  Save
this object as "position_1".  Rotate the compass group around the z-axis by
90 degrees, save this object as "position_2".  Looking at the top view,
"position_1" should have been diagonal going from the upper left-hand down
to the lower right-hand and "position_2" will be the opposite.

Delete "position_2" and load "position_1".  Add an axis and place it above
the axis of the left-hand compass leg (i.e., it should have the same x and y
position as the axis of the left-hand compass leg).  Using this axis as the
parent, group the compass to it.  This is going to be your "moving local axis."
Add another axis, and put it underneath the handle (x=0, y=0, z<>0).  Group the
moving axis to this axis, this axis will not move at all.  Select Cycle Setup
from the Functions menu.  Save the group as compass.master.

Be sure that you are in Pick-Groups mode.  Pick the moving axis and position
it at y=0, keep x and z values the same.  Rotate around the z-axis by 45 deg.
From the top view, the group should now appear level.  Pick the non-moving axis.
Select CYCLE SETUP from the Functions menu.  Save this group as compass.pose.1.

Load "position_2".  Pick the moving axis (compass.pose.1).
Position the moving axis above the axis of the left leg of
"position_2".  Rotate around the z-axis by 45 degrees.  Your group should now
be in the same position as "position_2".  Pick the non-moving axis.  Select `
CYCLE SETUP and save this group as compass.pose.2.

Pick the moving axis of compass.pose.2, and position it above the right leg
of "position_2".  Pick the non-moving axis and select CYCLE SETUP.  Save this
group as compass.pose.3.

Pick the moving axis of compass.pose.3 and position it at y=0, leave x and z
alone.  Rotate around the z-axis by -45 degrees,  the object should now be level
viewed from the top view.  Pick the non-moving axis and select CYCLE SETUP.
Save the group as compass.pose.4.

Delete "position_2".  Load "position_1".  Pick the moving axis of compass.pose.4
and position it above the axis of the right leg of "position_1".  Rotate around
the z-axis by 45 degrees.  The group should now be in the same position as
"position_1".  Pick the non-moving axis and select CYCLE SETUP.  Save the
group as compass.pose.5.

You are now ready to create your cycle object.  Go into the cycle editor.
Load compass.master.  Go to frame 3 and select Load Pose, load compass.pose.1.
Go to frame 7 and Load Pose again (with compass.pose.2).  Go to frame 8 and
Load Pose compass.pose.3.  Go to frame 12 and Load Pose compass.pose.4.  Go
to frame 16 and Load Pose compass.pose.5.  Save your cycle object.  If you
want to see it move, select Make.

I hope my explanation is clear.  If it is not, please tell me and I'll try to
write a more organized explanation.

                        felix





##

Subject: Pricing for Animations... (fwd)
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 92 16:12:35 CST
From: [e-mail] (Christopher Ice)

Forwarded message:
> From daemon Wed Feb 26 10:45:53 1992
> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 1992 09:11:05 EST
> From: Dwayne <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Pricing for Animations...
> Sender: [e-mail]
> To: [e-mail]
> Message-Id: <[e-mail]>
>
> > From: [e-mail] (Aaron Tucker)
> > Subject: Color0 on object
> > To: [e-mail]
> stuff deleted
> >    Thank you for your time. BTW, Steve, since you live in California,
> >what are the going rates for 30fps 24bit animation? I have a deal with a
> >local vide house here where I record to MII. What is the average going rate
> >in CA for equivalent work? Anybody else?
>
> That is a very good question.
> I would like some help on this subject too.
> Do I charge by the hour for my time?
> Do I charge by the finished length of the work?
> Or so combination?
>
> >Juan Trevino
> >[e-mail]
> >"Wake up. Time to die."  -Leon from BladeRunner
>
>
> *****DWAYNE*****
> [e-mail]
>
Certainly I would charge for the time spent on the animation PLUS a fee for
equipment usage (ie. rendering time....wear and tear you know.)

The length of an animation in NO way reflects the amount of work put into
it..it can be as long as they want, but it might be crap.  Charging for time
spent would, in my opinion, be a fair way of ensuring that your time is
compensated.
--
+--------------------------------------///-------------------------------------+|    Chris Ice                        ///         Bradley University           |
|    [e-mail]   \\\///          Peoria, IL, USA              |+----------------------------------\XX/----------------------------------------+

          "We are programmed just to do....anything you want us to."

                                               --The Robots

##

Subject: extruding along splines
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 92 21:43:37 EST
From: [e-mail]

Whenever I want to make a connected series of points along a spline path,
I don't use the ribbon technique. It works, but if you are spinning or
the path is complex, you can't easily delete the extra points.

I just add an axis, and add TWO points connected by an edge. Then I
translate one point exactly on top of the other (with Translate or
Lock or Snap To Grid).  I extrude this new object along the path, and
use "Merge" to get rid of the extra points. No matter how complex and
twisty the path is, this will work without any manual editing. A final
step is to pick all of the faces in the object (there are infinitly
narrow ones connecting the points) and delete them.

Keep on rendering...


-Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Worley                                        [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


PS: Quick-n-dirty Expo report: Vista Pro 2.0 is WAY COOL. Animation Journeyman
was also being demoed by a 4th party vendor... it's hard to see it in action
due to the strange marketing by Hash. Nothing big graphics-wise other than
that (and a big draw at my booth! :-) I sold a buncha books. )
that (and a big draw at my booth! :-) I sold a buncha books. )